tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post7099437422442268639..comments2023-08-09T10:02:12.914-05:00Comments on Don't Drink the Flavor Aid: Weinland Explains?Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)http://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comBlogger94125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-56077499852580893072009-07-03T07:18:09.639-05:002009-07-03T07:18:09.639-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Weinland Observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-15091872484223518462009-07-02T22:00:10.930-05:002009-07-02T22:00:10.930-05:00Weinland Observer:
You're welcome to post com...Weinland Observer:<br /><br />You're welcome to post comments on my blog. However, I'm going to draw the line on using it for various Weinland followers to make personal connections. Sorry.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-91363592108356378332009-07-02T20:54:23.259-05:002009-07-02T20:54:23.259-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Weinland Observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-11133198242354693932009-07-02T12:49:25.102-05:002009-07-02T12:49:25.102-05:00Weinland Observer: I've enjoyed reading your c...Weinland Observer: I've enjoyed reading your comments and am encouraged by the maturity you've shown in your responses. Advice? Keep looking to God for answers, pray for understanding and be patient. In other words: Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths. I hope you meet some brothers and sisters in Christ to fellowship with. It can be lonely but you are not alone. I'll be praying for you and, hopefully we will meet at some time in the near future. Take care.Observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-2557265678372022202009-07-02T09:37:36.358-05:002009-07-02T09:37:36.358-05:00Observer, it turns out I found a facebook group th...Observer, it turns out I found a facebook group that sounds like maybe it's not just for baptized members as it was created by someone who isn't baptized. yet. IF they don't except the request, they will at least know about me. It's hard to say much on a forum like this, not safe posting much online. It seams you figured out my age area more or less, maybe off by only a few. How did you manage? Also, any other advice for me from experience? All the best.Weinland Observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-35436108218766711362009-07-02T08:11:44.134-05:002009-07-02T08:11:44.134-05:00"Ron is arrogant, spineless, a liar, etc, etc..."Ron is arrogant, spineless, a liar, etc, etc. Not true, not true, not true."<br /><br />Actually, his promise to step down and call himself a false prophet, which he did not, demonstrates that he is a liar, is spineless, and extremely arrogant. <br /><br />I find that people who follow false prophets like Ron Weinland look for someone who is narcisistic. They like attaching themselves to this personality type.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-69193486551785650432009-07-01T14:37:29.012-05:002009-07-01T14:37:29.012-05:00Weinland Observer
There is a facebook group starte...Weinland Observer<br />There is a facebook group started by and for COG-PKG members. I don't do facebook so I can't tell you much more about it. I know a couple of people who are on it and say the fellowship is wonderful. There are a dozen or so people that I keep in touch with, some more than others, by e-mail. There are a lot of young (early twenties) people that I have met that it would be great for you to be in contact with but I don't no how to get that information to you. (Don't put your e-mail address on this blog). I know that some were able to get in contact with each other after they "met" on Weinland Witness"Observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-62418624327678938372009-07-01T08:28:25.509-05:002009-07-01T08:28:25.509-05:00Thanks, xHWA.
The tithing debate is not closed, b...Thanks, xHWA.<br /><br />The tithing debate is not closed, but <b>DISCUSSION ABOUT THE BIBLICAL CORRECTNESS OF TITHING IS CLOSED ON THIS BLOG</b>.<br /><br />While the discussion has been civil, it's ended here. xHWA has invited this discussion over to his blog, <a href="http://asbereansdid.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">As Bereans Did</a>, and has created a <a href="https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5528158760608808912&postID=3761507679588174156" rel="nofollow">place for the tithing discussion to continue</a>.<br /><br />Thanks, xHWA.<br /><br />BTW, xHWA was a member in Weinland's Church of God (Preparing for the Kingdom of God) at one time.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-63292647551438253052009-07-01T08:26:53.436-05:002009-07-01T08:26:53.436-05:00Observer, thanks for the reply to my message. I do...Observer, thanks for the reply to my message. I do not know anyone from cog-pkg presently. Are there any related facebook groupsout there? If not one should be created by someone, nt a cog-pkg one as thatt would be for someone like Ron to do but for anyone reading andl earning from the website or the books. This was suggested on Weinland Witness forum but it would be nice if it was followed up on. What do you think?Weinland observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-57012904303823359512009-07-01T08:18:28.733-05:002009-07-01T08:18:28.733-05:00This is turning into a tithe debate. I agree with ...This is turning into a tithe debate. I agree with Mike. This isn't the place for it. I suggest that <a href="http://asbereansdid.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Seeker of Truth host a special blog post where people can debate this issue</a> into the next millennium. Sound good? Who's in? <br /><br />Meanwhile, Mike can get back<br />to doing what he does best (and what he does here) - debunking Ron Weinland.<br /><br />------<br /><br />There <a href="http://xhwa.blogspot.com/search/label/Tithing" rel="nofollow">are a series of posts on another blog that deal with tithing</a> and answers many questions such as:<br /><br />"So what if Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek."<br />[Actually, Abraham paid A tithe, one time, and it was a tenth of the best of war spoils, not a tenth of all the field, flock, and orchard.]<br /><br />"Tithing is for God's church."<br />[Oh, is it?]<br /><br />"Tithing was in place before a Levitical and sacrificial system was instituted."<br />[Actually, a sacrificial system was from Cane and Abel's time, circumcision was from Abraham's time, and neither of these are required now. But I digress.]<br /><br />I suggest everyone who believes in Christian tithing read these articles since you may possibly be missing the larger boat of Christian giving.xHWAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061716053302210598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-81630902178527672762009-07-01T08:05:55.775-05:002009-07-01T08:05:55.775-05:00Observer, as you said, much of what is said is in ...Observer, as you said, much of what is said is in the comments and is on the commenter. Here's what I think about each one.<br /><br /><i>1. Ron charges to baptize. Not true.</i> I do not believe that there is a baptismal fee per se, such as a $50 fee paid just before baptism. However, tithing is a prerequisite.<br /><br /><i>2. Church members are commanded not to go on anti-Weinland sites. Not true.</i> Agreed that Ron has not stated "thou shalt not". But his suggestions are pretty strong. As I recall, he threatened disfellowshipping for anyone representing the church.<br /><br /><i>3. The fast at the end of January was to ask God to cause more death. Actually it was to save more people. </i> This one I'll stick with. Members were to pray for more destruction causing more death, perhaps as you say to "save more". <br /><br />Now that you mention it, how's that working out so far? It's been 5 months now. <br /><br /><i>4. Ron usually sits to give a sermon because he is either drunk or hungover. He likes to stand and he does not get drunk therefore doesn't get hungover.</i> Now the commenter said that he was hungover one time and decided to sit and liked it. In a recent sermon, he stated that he was sitting. Since the commenter was a PKG member and was there, I tend to believe his assessment that Ron had a bit too much that one time.<br /><br /><i>5. Ron's house is paid for by tithes. Proof??</i> Are you saying that Ron has a source of income other than from tithes?<br /><br />And let's say that it comes out in the IRS investigation that he took church funds for personal expenses without declaring it as income. Not saying that he has, but if he did, what would you call that?<br /><br /><i>6. Ron is an overbearing husband and Laura follows him in great fear and trembling. You really don't know Ron or Laura!</i> I'll agree with you there. Ron and Laura have some kind of odd symbiosis going on, but I don't think that he abuses her.<br /><br /><i>7. Along the same line, COG-PKG is a male dominated Church where women are commanded to submit. Actually what Ron has said in his sermons is the most balanced position on husband-wife relationships that I have heard in any church I have attended.</i> Don't recall where that one came from. Nevertheless, women are not allowed to speak in services or be ordained -- except for Laura (special case).<br /><br /><i>8. Ron is arrogant, spineless, a liar, etc, etc. Not true, not true, not true ...</i> Let's take these one at a time.<br /><br />Arrogant: I found his response about the $381,000 house arrogant -- he could have spent more.<br /><br />Spineless: Not generally, particularly when dealing with those over whom he has authority. His flight from ideaCity and the blasphemy of Rick Miller an exception. He should have stayed and done his job.<br /><br />Liar: That on I'll own. Ron failed to follow through on repeated promises to stop preaching and acknowledge being a false prophet when his prophecies failed.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-24095127636824188372009-07-01T07:34:44.895-05:002009-07-01T07:34:44.895-05:00Mike,
Most of the misinformation comes from the co...Mike,<br />Most of the misinformation comes from the comments. For example:<br />1. Ron charges to baptize. Not true.<br />2. Church members are commanded not to go on anti-Weinland sites. Not true.<br />3. The fast at the end of January was to ask God to cause more death. Actually it was to save more people. <br />4. Ron usually sits to give a sermon because he is either drunk or hungover. He likes to stand and he does not get drunk therefore doesn't get hungover.<br />5. Ron's house is paid for by tithes. Proof??<br />6. Ron is an overbearing husband and Laura follows him in great fear and trembling. You really don't know Ron or Laura!<br />7. Along the same line, COG-PKG is a male dominated Church where women are commanded to submit. Actually what Ron has said in his sermons is the most balanced position on husband-wife relationships that I have heard in any church I have attended.<br />8. Ron is arrogant, spineless, a liar, etc, etc. Not true, not true, not true ...<br />.... And that's just off the top of my head. There is much more.Observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-62768366049313171062009-07-01T06:52:41.659-05:002009-07-01T06:52:41.659-05:00Observer, you say our minds are closed. I was ope...Observer, you say our minds are closed. I was open-minded enough to read Ron's book and see what he had prophesied. When I saw that he failed his own test, I declared him to be what he is and has repeatedly demonstrated himself to be -- a false prophet. A certain degree of open-mindedness is good, but not so much that your brains fall out.<br /><br />You also state that your family is getting incorrect information about your beliefs on my blog. Please tell me, what exactly have I said that's not correct?Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-36330359942062497182009-07-01T06:29:32.331-05:002009-07-01T06:29:32.331-05:00Weinland Observer: I miss the old Weinland Witness...Weinland Observer: I miss the old Weinland Witness Forum as well. There was some good debate but the minds weren't so completely shut. I'm not sure why some church members felt that they had to stop commenting on the forem simply because Citizen X had come to the conclusion that Ron was a false prophet. You came to that conclusion a couple of times but worked through it. If Citizen X keeps his mind open he may do the same.<br />I used a different name on that forum. I chose Observer for this blog because I have been a "Don't Drink The Flavor Aid" observer for some time now. I began observing it when I realized some family members were reading it and were making assumptions about my beliefs based on what was being said on this blog instead of asking me for the truth. By understanding what they had been told and some of the attitudes behind the information, I was better able to have patience and understanding when it came to their attitudes towards me. Yes I am a member of COG-PKG. I hope you have some friends within the Church that you can keep in touch with by e-mail or on Facebook. It really makes a difference.Observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-85433580209602156942009-07-01T02:57:11.085-05:002009-07-01T02:57:11.085-05:00It continues to amaze me when 'Law' automa...It continues to amaze me when 'Law' automatically means Old Covenant.<br /><br />In a small town I lived near once, there was an old law that said one could not ride their horse on main street while playing guitar.<br />They decided to remove that law since it was outdated. Is that confusing to people to go and change a perfectly good law?<br />I know. That's a man made law and we're talking about God's laws.<br /><br />Why are people so <i>very</i> attached to the Old Covenant? Is it so terrible if we are no longer <i>under</i> the Old Covenant? Is it <i>so</i> terrible if we are under the New Covenant? <br /><br />What exactly was meant by 'a veil covers their eyes when Moses is read?'<br /><br />How is it one could actually believe that if the Old Covenant is no longer in effect that it would mean people are free to sin?<br /><br />How does being under the New Covenant mean one can sin?<br /><br />Are we the children who are only happy if we have a stern faced adult standing over us with a ruler, telling us to be good or else, as opposed to the adult who says 'go outside and play nicely with the other children'.<br /><br />What is the obsession over the Old Covenant? I know... God said it would be a problem... but still... I just don't get it.<br /><br />If you choose to be under the Old Covenant, you choose to be on your own, because Christ is of no value to you. He died to pay our debt. A free gift. But your debt cannot be paid if you choose the OC, because then it's up to YOU to be perfect (which is impossible) in order to gain salvation... rather than a perfect Christ paying your debt and gifting you salvation.<br /><br />It baffles and saddens me. Truly.<br />Men like Ronald Weinland rob people of Christ's gift.<br /><br />The lie I hate most, of Ron Weinland's false teachings, is that Christ Jesus was created! The Bible says that no God was created... so what gives? That teaching alone discredits RW as belonging to God. It makes him an antichrist.<br /><br />Why is it so difficult to understand that when Jesus died, the New Covenant came into effect?<br />I think it's because people still think they have to 'earn' it. They cannot fathom that faith grants you the gift. It's too easy! Right? So, then that leaves 'earning', 'works'.<br /><br />"Not because of who I am, but because of what You've done. Not because of what I've done, but because of who You are" <br /><br />~ Casting Crowns - Who Am I <br /><br />That says it all...Seeker Of Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05974355570014495622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-50783421180870970962009-06-30T23:11:44.260-05:002009-06-30T23:11:44.260-05:00Rather interesting that Hebrews 8 is not a scriptu...Rather interesting that Hebrews 8 is not a scripture that Ron has covered, <a href="http://cog-pkg.org/faq/scriptureexplained.aspx" rel="nofollow">according to his church website</a>. <br /><br />He's covered very chapter in Hebrews, except this one. Interesting.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-29617567948699321872009-06-30T23:01:29.984-05:002009-06-30T23:01:29.984-05:00Mike,
Hebrews 8? Jesus said himself that He ...Mike, <br /> Hebrews 8? Jesus said himself that He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The law is not obsolete. This has already been covered before in this thread.Believernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-72695756109548231312009-06-30T22:58:07.183-05:002009-06-30T22:58:07.183-05:00OK, I see that I've got it, as I said.
And it...OK, I see that I've got it, as I said.<br /><br />And it's God who's made you see? Hmmm.<br /><br />As far as your question to RK,<br />Hebrews 8.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-79977084025559047242009-06-30T22:54:04.743-05:002009-06-30T22:54:04.743-05:00RKPDRMR,
You stated, "We have to look ...RKPDRMR,<br /> You stated, "We have to look into the New Convenant, not the Old, or anything before it, to see what applies to us, now." <br /> According to your own logic, show me where in the New Testament, exactly, where that command is given? Seems to me you are guilty of your own accusations...,that being of adding to scripture.Believernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-73106653862366786792009-06-30T22:49:50.365-05:002009-06-30T22:49:50.365-05:00Mike, I gave you my explanation. That still stands...Mike, I gave you my explanation. That still stands. The believing comes from God giving one the ability to "see" it.Believernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-62859768779949843212009-06-30T22:47:03.244-05:002009-06-30T22:47:03.244-05:00So you're saying you have no arguments for tit...So you're saying you have no arguments for tithing, it's all based on faith in ... what? -- the word of a man who tells you that tithing is required. And who, by the way, has an upscale house on a golf course, takes expensive cruises, and has opened Swiss bank accounts. All paid for with .... (surprise) tithes. And who has demonstrated that he is not true to his word.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-85680512385093801632009-06-30T22:38:44.762-05:002009-06-30T22:38:44.762-05:00RKPDRMR,
I didn't expect that you would...RKPDRMR,<br /> I didn't expect that you would flat out change your mind and all of a sudden say, wow, how did I miss that one? What I gave as an explanation for why God's church tithes does not give concrete proof, at least in your eyes that is. Did you ever think that's the way God designed it? As a matter of faith? Remember...., without faith, it's impossible to please God. Your conclusions are based on your own interpretations of certain scriptures. Your whole covenant thing is baseless and wrong. But see...., we disagree and we obviously always will.Believernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-5811244843489276762009-06-30T22:09:51.982-05:002009-06-30T22:09:51.982-05:00Since "Jesus is the head of the body (the chu...Since "Jesus is the head of the body (the church) so as long as God's church exists, tithing is required for the church".<br /><br />Where does Paul (or any other apostle) say that? Nowhere.<br /><br />Those are your words and your conclusion. Not those of scripture.<br /><br />And you can't add to scripture what isn't in there.<br /><br />So what if Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek. We don't look into what applied to them, then, to see what applies to us, now. Because it's not quite the same.<br /><br />We have to look into the New Covenant, not the Old, or anything before it, to see what applies to us, now. And since tithing isn't commanded in the New, to say that we are obligated to do it, is adding something that isn't in there. And adding to a covenant that God has instituted is forbidden.<br /><br />And our inheritance (as Christians) that is, the better promises of the New Covenant, aren't going to be diminished one bit for not keeping something that isn't in there. We are guaranteed of that, based on the words of the New Covenant.RKPDRMRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-65821744175584732752009-06-30T21:33:19.385-05:002009-06-30T21:33:19.385-05:00Believer: a rather tenuous connection there. Beca...Believer: a rather tenuous connection there. Because of this, and because of that, therefore we tithe. No need for an explicit command to tithe.<br /><br />And somehow PKG is God's true church among all the other Armstrongite church's that believe basically the same thing, except for Ron's pet prophetic theories and his pet theory on the origin of Christ. (Assuming of course, that there has to be one true church and that it has to be an Armstrongite church.)<br /><br />Kind of like the proof for the 50th "truth". Because it's so many day from this date to another date, and because it's so many days from this other day to this day, therefore the 50th truth. <br /><br />Just goes to show: the bible is a very versatile book. It can be used to support about any position you want it to.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4786503266762545186.post-20968685154915604722009-06-30T21:20:05.631-05:002009-06-30T21:20:05.631-05:00Tithing is for God's church. Tithing was in pl...Tithing is for God's church. Tithing was in place before a Levitical and sacrificial system was instituted. Abram paid his tithes to Melchizedek. In the book of Hebrews, Jesus Christ is spoken of as being made a High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. Jesus Christ is the head of the body of Christ (God's church), so as long as God's church exists, tithing is required for God's church.Believernoreply@blogger.com