His Hawaiian vacation was discussed, the luau that he attended, and the hot weather. Ron repeated the instructions for the Feast of Tabernacles, which will have the same format as last year's. Ron and Laura are traveling "down under" and most people are to listen to the sermons daily purely in their homes or local areas for the first 4 days, and then assemble for the last 3 days of the feast and the Last Great Day.
He stuck his toe back in the water with regard to prophecy. The swine flu may mutate and become more widespread. He was very vague about it -- he can ignore it but at the same time can point to it later on if it does become widespread.
He spent several minutes reminiscing about his epiphany while drinking beer at the Dark Horse Inn in Hays, Kansas back in 1969. He had trouble remembering why he went off on that tangent. I'm having trouble figuring out how he was a college junior that year, given that he was 19 and turned 20 at the end of the school year. Particularly since he was not very studious. Maybe Ron will explain that sometime.
Recently there's been an active debate going on in the comments sections of the last few posts, tedious yet fascinating at the same time. (And not only with the discovery that Blogger paginates the comments once the counts reaches 200 ;) A couple of Weinland's followers, one a PKG member and the other a teen who'd like to join up have been engaged with a number of Weinland's critics and/or mockers, including yours truly. With similar nicknames, it was possible to confuse them which I did initially.
The PKG member took exception to my constant references to the ineffective death curses Weinland has laid against me.
Mike: You have already (kind of) admitted that Ron did not specifically name you in the "death curse" so don't you think it's time to give that one a rest. How many times can you repeat the same things over and over again without someone screaming ENOUGH. Tell us something new!I have readily admitted that Weinland did not name me specifically when issuing the death curse. Actually, he did not name anyone -- does that mean that it applies to no one? There were no answers to that point. The PKG member then brought up a herring colored red:
Mike: I remember Ron referring to e-mails that people sent him in which horrible things were said and threats were made on his life. If you want to own up to being responsible for writing any of those e-mails then perhaps I can accept that you have received a death curse. Otherwise, I think you should stop using it as a proof that Ron is a false prophet even though it seems to be a favorite "proof" of yours.In his sermon of June 13, Weinland mentioned receiving multiple death threat emails. I don't recall any other mention of this. Just for the record, I've sent Ron only one email -- it's quoted here on this blog, and there were no death threats included. And in fact, I've done the opposite, having taken steps to persuade someone else to not publish Weinland's address. I don't wish the False Prophet physical harm, but there may be some out there whose feelings are more intense.
Others participating in the debate took offense to the PKG member's last statement, which could be interpreted as implying that I have threatened Weinland physically. The PKG member responded:
Do you purposely misinterpret what I write? It is VERY obvious from what I said to Mike that: 1. I DO NOT think he sent threatening e-mails to Ron 2. It is those who did send them that Ron was referring to and 3. Unless number 1 is an incorrect assumption on my part (and only Mike could correct that) or I will stand by my opinion that Mike has not been cursed and therefore should not use it as proof of Ron being a false prophet.I pointed to a sermon file for December 20, 2008 during which Ron reimposed the death curse and suggested that the PKG member actually listen to it. The PKG member did not feel that necessary and responded:
Mike: If everyone who mocked or criticized Ron was cursed to death there would be a lot of deaths by now. I would have already buries several family members for that matter. Sorry but you really can't use this "proof" no matter how attached you are to it. It simply doesn't fly.Let's summarize the PKG member's thinking:
- She'd heard Ron criticized or mocked
- The offender didn't die
- Ron is one of the Witnesses ....
- therefore if he'd issued a death curse the offender would be dead
- since the offender isn't dead, Ron could not have issued the death curse.
- therefore no need to listen again to Ron issue his death curse to see what he said
Everyone, Ron's curse was to the mockers. This includes everyone who mocks Ron. It's simple. If you mock Ron you're on the list. If you don't, you aren't on it. Mike criticises Ron but there's a diference between mocking and criticizing.I indeed put out a lot of criticism of Weinland, but also do my share of mocking. I pointed out my New Year's Day post which clearly mocks the author of a book of false prophecy. The teen wannabee replied:
Ron said that the mockers would either stop or die speadilly. You haven't mocked that way in a while.Ron did say something like that when he issued the death curse in April of 2008, when he said that the mockers would either cease or die. By this logic, a two-pack-a-day smoker quits smoking 40 times every day. So I guess there's a lower risk of cancer risk because the smoker quits more often than a non-smoker ;) And maybe because I quit mocking Ron so often I'll live even longer than normal.
Let's look at a few of Weinland's statements during his sermon of December 20, 2008. At about 1 hour and 20 minutes into the sermon file with announcements available for download here, Weinland references his death curse issued on April 19, 2008 against his mockers and says:
Those are the ones who God is going to begin working with early on, the mockers, the scorners, those who hate God. They’re the ones who are going to lose out on what God is offering. ….. I call upon those individuals to have those very problems I mentioned earlier on, to die from within, and not slowly now -- speedily.Weinland goes on over the next 15 minutes to read Revelation 11:3-5 which states:
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.At around 1 hour and 28 minutes in the sermon file, Weinland offers his interpretation of "hurt" and repeats himself several times:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Interesting word. [ referring to "hurt"] It’s a word that means to be unjust toward, actively the cause, if you will, to do wrong toward, literally in the Greek meaning morally, socially, or physically. To hurt, injure, to be an offender toward, to be unjust toward, to do any wrong toward.And later on:
There are definite things here that are going to come back on someone, just like a boomerang. They’re going to learn the hard way in some things, But even more so, because more teeth is going to be added to it.My interpretation of this is that the death curse applies to his critics as well. That point may be debatable, but the death curse clearly applies to mockers. In addition to my mocking New Year's Day post, I issued a series of mocking posts against Ron in December. And then we have the absolute champion at Weinland mockery, Dill Weed, who is still alive and doing what he does best on his own blog.
Every time I point out how long it's been since Weinland issued the death curse against me and that I'm still alive, I mock him. Which I do again, pointing out that it's now 29 weeks since Weinland cursed me with a speedy death, yet still I mock.
108 comments:
We have escaped Ron's curse!
The answer is in the fine print.
Those are the ones who God is going to begin working with early on, the mockers, the scorners, THOSE WHO HATE GOD.
I don't hate God. I just hate what Ron is doing and do not believe he is a prophet anymore than I'm Shaquile O'Neal.
And, if i don't miss my guess, you don't hate God either.
Dill Weed
I guess curses are like wishes you have to be specific or they sometimes come with a twist.
I'm thinking he'll re-re-issue it again and specify those who do not accept him as God's prophet.
Dill Weed
Mike: Just to be real clear and as my last word on this subject: I did not say whether or not you were included in the "death curse" only that YOU HAVE NO PFOOF. Proof is very important to you so stick to your high standards. I did say that, in my opinion you were not included but, I could be wrong. You want to be included so badly that, who knows, you may get your wish. It sounds like Dill Weed may want to be along for the ride.
Mike and Dill, wanting to mock Ron and mocking him is different. Stating you're a mocker doesn't make you one. It's your intent so to be one if you state you are so that might equate to mocking. As far as mocking, Ron was referring to examples such as a letter from the boyfriend of someone who was about to be baptized in COG-PKG. Mike and Dill don't get me wrong but in order to become a part of Ron's curse guaranteed, you need to actually make fun of and mock Ron. Again, don't take this the wrong way. If you're a mocker, you currently work part time or less. I wish you well and no harm.
Observer, Welcome back and hopefully you had a good sabbath. Mine was good although I often realize I find ways to improve its observance. On the Sabbath other than the weekly sermon I listen to at least another sermon or study the Bible, pray, or simply think about God's creation and appreciate it by taking a walk. It's constant growth. I'll end up doing something small such as maybe reading something or starting to or listening to music that I maybe shouldn't listen to and having to repent. This Sabbath I finished the last bit of Ezekiel, around a third of it.
Just so you know I believe God is answering your prayers for me in addition to mine. I feel I am growing, being shown the need to repent more often, learning deeper meaning of more scriptures, being able to memorize several more scripture locations as opposed to before where I couldn't as easily and just remembered what I read but not where, and improving my ability to pray and my depth of thankfulness along with a deeper understanding of sermons. I praise God for this to him the glory being forever. I pray the Feast sites remain open and that the swine flue doesn't close them down, but God's will shall be done and it is what is best no matter what carnal human nature may think of it. Just urious, are you from the US or somewhere else? Also, have you met or talked to anyone
with the same circumstances as mine (someone under 18 who is learning the truth?
Hi WO. I did have a very nice peaceful Sabbath. Thank you for your kind words. I'm encouraged. Like you, I'm a Canadian, ay, but actually it drives me crazy when I hear people say that. I don't want to be any more specific than that for now. There aren't that many Canadians in the Church. : ) I will talk to you more tomorrow. Right now I'm exhausted and need to get a good night sleep. If I was 15 I could probably keep going for a few more hours but it's not the case. Take care....
Part time, full time it doesn't matter.
Ron was clear about what God gave him, mockers who hate God are the ones who who are to die speedily inside.
I don't hate God.
Ron's curse leaves me out. Period.
That may be why I am not dead.
Dill Weed
29 week since Ron cursed you? Maybe you're going to end up just like Joe Tkach, Sr. and die exactly 40 weeks to the day. That leaves exactly 11 weeks left. The number 11 stands for judgment. Interesting, huh?
wo.
you said "As far as mocking, Ron was referring to examples such as a letter from the boyfriend of someone who was about to be baptized in COG-PKG."
for someone not even in the church, you seem to have a lot of inside info...
very interesting....or was that in one of the sermons?
One thing that Weinland got right:He said that there would be a huge increase in celebrity deaths.This doesn't prove that he's who he says he is,but it's interesting nonetheless.
I don't consider this a huge increase in celebrity deaths. I was totally ignorant as to who Billy Mays was.
Part of it is what the criteria needed to be a celebrity.
Here's a link to a website that keeps track of celebrity deaths. I'd guess they have their own standards as to what exactly defines a celeb. Assuming their standards didn't change, one could do a little statistical analysis to see if there's a huge increase in the celeb death rate.
Since celebrity deaths are independent, I'd expect some clustering. If they were perfectly, evenly spaced, then that would be suspicious.
Yes, I regard proof as important. Which is why I provided it. I totally understand that you prefer to ignore it.
Dill Weed, you're playing devil's advocate. Or in this case false prophet's advocate.
And WO, really. Trying to say we haven't mocked Ron because we don't actively do it with every waking breath. Come on.
But since Weinland is not one of the witnesses of Revelation 11, to whom he intended that his death curse apply is moot.
Way to disobey the Bible and keep an abbreviated Feast of Tabernacles there, Ron. I guess "Holy Convocation" can mean whatever you want it to mean. It's probably because he's funding his own lavish lifestyle with the 2nd tithes of his members. Whoops, there's another violation of the Bible there. 0 for 2, tsk tsk.
There is absolutely no reason to have an abbreviated Feast. It is still safe to travel, and is it not difficult to rent a facility. Heck, with the economy the way it is, I'm sure a conference center would just LOVE to host a group of a couple hundred.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say to keep the Feast until the Witness says not to. So why have the Feast of Tabernacles at home? After all, you're supposed to take TEMPORARY DWELLINGS AWAY FROM HOME. Observer, do you HONESTLY have no problem with following through with a partial Feast? If you say no, then you are a blind to the truth, and if you say yes and still follow through with Ron's command, then you are drinking the Flavor-Aid.
I mock Weinland too. I have been for a while to my mother's face. He is a false prophet who either gets his information from a chewing gum wrapper or from Satan himself. He's also bald.
*checks my heart beat*
Yup, still here.
Todd, that example that I used of mocking came from the Weinland Witness site/Ron reading the letter in one of his sermons.
J, the feast and Last Great Day ar still being kept with going before God for the whole 8 days whatever you may think of it. It still involves coming before God daily to here his words, rejoicing which is celebrating in any way, and sitting each day to here the message. Where it says something about sitting in booths it doesn't say sit there 24/7 for 7 days.
Ron isn't doing this type of feast observance in order to save tithes for preparation for the literal coming Feast Of Tabernacles that will come the next few years or because of the times we live in although they are two important reasons. Ron is doing this in order to give the Church a deeper that it is obedience to God's commandments that is important and not traditiorealization or going through the motions. In 2001 he gave a sermon where he described among other things that everyone was used to having certain jobs to do and that it got to a point where people were upset at him not designating someone to tell people where to park their cars or people to be in charge of handing out cookies. As he ssaid paraphrasing, cookies are good and I like them but I'd rather not have them at all than see this happen." There's nothing wrong with certain cultural tradition but tradition for the sake of repetition has no place with God as it makes the Church more used to a pattern where growth stops and a condition of stalemate occurs. Then things such as what happened in WCG occur. I know this not just because Ron said it but because that is exactly how WCG ultimately lead to falling apart.
In closing, it is obedience and growth and not tradition that pleases God!
Observer, speaking of the Feast Ron stated last year that anyone can celebrate in some way during that time. I'm thinking if I read Armstrong's article The Wonderful World Tomorrow I could rejoice more so that way. Going to a park wouldn't be a bad idea either. Any suggestions?
Mike I must say you're trying harder to mock.
Thank you WO for giving that great response to J. I was just returning from Dill Weed's site and didn't look forward to writing a long explanation to J. I am a pathetically slow typist and I have to write my comments when no one else needs the computer. You handled it well, even though it will not convince anyone who really wants to find reason to criticize Ron. I will add two things .... there have always been people who, for various reasons, could not make it to the feast site but still kept the feast. Second, there are new people coming along constantly and without much time to save second tithe, it would be hard for many of them to go for the entire time. This way it is more fair.
I believe that Ron has said anyone who mocks him is really mocking God. So, according to him, anyone who mocks him mocks and hates God. I will not stop mocking Ron until all of his followers are freed from his grip.
Needless to say, nobody has died as a result of Ron's curse and there are plenty of people who mock. You know why nobody has died? Because Ron isn't a prophet. He's got hundreds of people hoodwinked into delivering to his PO Box 10+% of their income so he can travel to exotic locations and live a lifestyle like HWA that he envied.
What exactly does he do other than travel all over the world haranguing people to send him money? And people eat it up!
"Second, there are new people coming along constantly and without much time to save second tithe, it would be hard for many of them to go for the entire time. This way it is more fair."
What would be fair would be for Ron not to demand and collect portions of his followers second tithe and use it for himself, but rather give it to the new people so they could enjoy the feast.
During the Last Great Day afternoon sermon, Ronald Weinland said:
“There will not be a Feast of Tabernacles held next year, not even half of one. Please hear that one.”
WO: No, I'm not trying any harder to mock. If you're implying that I have to try harder to prove it to you that I'm mocking, gimme a break. You'll find some argument to convince yourself that Ron's curse doesn't apply to me.
Mark, I had the same recollection. Trying to find the exact quote where mocking Ron = mocking God.
Also find Ron's definition for "hate God".
People posting as anonomis you should repost with your name so that Mike doesn't delete the posts. If you must delete them Mike, save them. They flow well.
Observer and I are exactly who we say we are and the a pronounced as ay is indeed the Canadian sound. Trust me, a French teacher of mine had a whole period of explanations of followed by note writing on the Canadian sound ay. Speaking of which, I know someone who's American and when he moved to Canada he stated he liked the use of the word. I can't specifically post who I am specifically (name/adress etc), but I promisse that everything I have said about myself is indeed true.
Mark, Tithes are used for Ron to travel so that he can visit various congregations around the world in addition to going to places where people are being called. Additionally, it is used for advertising for the books. The 1/4 of second tithe is sent in for preparation for the Literal Feast of Tabernacles, to advertise the books and help call others so that they can live on in to a new age. I am here because God called me, but to call me and others God used the tithes and offerings of those in the Church. Everyone shared in the glory of God and it is a blessing for it to be seen!
I'm assuming that I accidentally did the anonymous thing again since there was nothing controversial in the comment.
J: Elisha, the prophet was bald, too. Check out the story in II Kings 2: 19 - 25.
"The 1/4 of second tithe is sent in for preparation for the Literal Feast of Tabernacles, to advertise the books and help call others so that they can live on in to a new age."
Where is that in the Bible? People keep Christmas and that isn't in the Bible and you condemn that. Also, 1st tithe is for preaching gospel. Second tithe is set apart for the feast. Using second tithe for any other purpose is robbing God, no matter how you justify it in your mind.
The old saying is true - give people enough rope & they will hang themselves.
It amazes me how Observer and WO are here speaking as if it were Ron speaking - they are fighting Ron's battles, as it were. It's interesting they arrived here about the same time.
Observer started out by saying "Just to be real clear..." -Ron talks in the very same way. Now Observer is saying the very opposite re: death curse as what he/she stated in a post last week. Another tactic of Ron's.
A real Canadian would know that the saying is 'Canadian Eh!' not Canadian ay.
The above are just a couple of examples and I may be wrong, but my senses tell me these posters are not who they say they are. Alot of what they say & do (in posting here) just doesn't add up.
Just my two cents.
Mark: I know that some new people are helped as far as the feast is concerned. The rest of your comment doesn't deserve an a response.
J: Although you believe that you should keep the commandments, you actually brag about your disrespect (lack of honor) to your own Mother. What's with that? Bad enough that you act that way but to brag about your sin ... the Bible is clear about what God thinks about people who sin and encourage others to do the same.
Mike: I get a smile out of how badly WO doesn't want you to be a mocker and how badly you do want to be a mocker. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact you are still alive, I just think he really likes you. Don't always look for the negative. : )
It's not a case of my "wanting" to be a mocker, I simply am one and this blog is conclusive proof to those who are willing to admit it.
Any desperation is on WO's side. I'll accept your viewpoint that he likes me. But my continued existence proves the lie to Weinland's curse, so therefore I must not be a mocker. Or enough of one. Or something.
"The rest of your comment doesn't deserve an a response."
That's because you have no response and no justification for the un-Biblical practice.
Debbie: A real Canadian might write it as "Canadian, eh .... not sure, since I don't use the term myself but (at least in the eastern half of the country) it is SAID, "Canadian, ay" Not a big deal. I was just trying to find out, generally, where WO was from without everyone else knowing. I didn't realize that he was going to give his exact location. Should be ok though.
If you would like me to be from somewhere else, where would it be? : )
Mark: No, it's because your comment is not true.
i have to agree with debbie.
something is very fishy about o and wo.
only they truly know if they are lying. and if that is the case, their own mind will convict them.
Mike: Of course you are a mocker. You don't have to convince me of that. Are you under the "death curse." Only God knows the answer to that. There are MANY mockers. The fact that you are still alive only proves that (drum roll)....... you are still alive.
And No, Debbie, my position on that HAS NOT changed. I have repeated the same thing, many times, many ways and, it would seem, you and others don't WANT to get it, so on this issue, I will say no more. (I realize I said that before, I'm tenacious, but even I know when to move on.)
"Mark: No, it's because your comment is not true."
Then point out the error of my statement. I hold that my statement IS true. I think you would rather not deal with how Ron re-writes the Bible.
Mike, mocking is coming more naturally for you now along with some others. As far as you being a mocker or not you either are or not and nothing changes it. If I want to be a commedian I will either be a commedian or not. That's all there is to this.
As far as Observer stating I like you, I'll just say that I am able to more easily talk to people who are interested in me. Shall we say some people share their 3d personalities more than others. This could be for various reasonn so there is no need to be guessing.
This is the first time in my life where a debate on whether someone is mocking someone or not has ever come up. Now that I think about it, I haven't heard of such a debate at all other than on this blog. In a way it's funny when you really think about it.
As far as the Feast, Ron hadn't been given time, times, and half a time truth before stating that there wouldn't be a feast this year. Oct. 10 will explain so much. Mike do you think my explanaition of what time, times, and half a time based on hints from sermons is at all close to what Ron will reveal?
Mark, the reason why the rest of your comment does not need a response is because there was one given before the comment was made. I didn't mean for it to sound harsh but that's the reality of it. The money for the feast is being use to prepair for for the period of the feast, calling people to live on in to a new age. I hope I don't have to reanswer that but if I do I probably will end up doing it.
J, I recommend that if you wish to get along with your mom more you should make an effort to drop Weinland conversations as they don't seam to amount to much. You mocking Ron doesn't tell her anything. She will still respect you if you don't believe what truth she knows. Should you not do the same if you think you are right?
Observer, I know what you mean about the location aspect. I'm at the point where if I mentioned a certain fact that anyone from my hometown who knows me could know exactly who I am. Then again, if they did it wouldn't matter to much but it would matter a little more than I want it to. Currently I'm as good as anyone my age for all anyone knows and it's best to keep it that way. There are some people here who I wouldn't mind telling who I am and then there are others who I wouldn't be able to trust with that info further than I could throw them. One thing is for sure and it is that cog-pkg knows who I am although they do not keep their letters after they are responded to them. When it all comes down to it, for sure there are things I won't mention here about myself. It's only smart that way.
We post part time - though more lately. However, the blogs are up all the time and therefore mock 24/7.
I'm glad WO and O are here. I won't be drawn into disputation about tithing, feasts, festivals, or sabbaths. They are neither here nor there for me.
The only thing that matters is the absolute lack of evidence that Ron is a prophet and that matters absolutely, does it not?
We are going to get to the point where Ron's claims become unsustainable and then he is going to attempt to get out some way. The plan may already be in the works. It should be a doozy.
We agree to disagree, but agree to respect and to be cordial. Members are really going to be disappointed and angry when it happens. Those scars will be lasting, too. I think it will happen before the half way point, Sept 4, 2010.
"Speaking of which, I know someone who's American and when he moved to Canada he stated he liked the use of the word."
That you can't even spell correctly.
Yeah you're Canadian all right. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
"J: Elisha, the prophet was bald, too. Check out the story in II Kings 2: 19 - 25."
Seen any bears lately J??
"The above are just a couple of examples and I may be wrong, but my senses tell me these posters are not who they say they are. Alot of what they say & do (in posting here) just doesn't add up."
I've been saying that since they showed up. But no one listens to me. :-(
LOL...oh my goodness.
"Members are really going to be disappointed and angry when it happens. Those scars will be lasting, too. I think it will happen before the half way point, Sept 4, 2010."
As witnessed the wave of defections on the Ironwolf board, and the other blogs, after the failure of Timeline One.
It'll be deja vu all over again, and Weinland is still laughing all the way to the bank. While the two elders here have the rest of you distracted.
Mark: Actually, we are not to send in any part of 2nd tithe. This has been the case for some time now. I'd have to look it up to tell you the exact date but it has been ever since it was realized that there could very well be an organized Feast this year. (My guess is that it was in January) Before that some or, at times, most of second tithe was sent in for books advertising, etc ... NOT FOR RON"S PLEASURE. Tithes are God's. Actually everything is God's. He is very generous in allowing us to keep the larger portion of what He has given us.
Dill Weed: Do you like this blog better that your own? I'm trying to have a serious conversation with you over there. ; )
Purple Hymnal, Observer and I aren't eldars and we are simply people who have viewed this blog for quite a while and happened to start posting around the same time. I'll leave it at that.
Dill, I do not believe there will be a timeline change as I have stated before . We have to agree to disagree. That's one thing I can agree with. Do you like this blog better than your own as Observer asked. I don't know the answer but you post here a lot more than you do on your blog.
Another random fact. Read this wall post from a Ronald Weinland group someone posted on facebook.
Yes its is a sad day..Michael Jackson is dead, but there is good new that will follow...Michael has now been sealed by GOD and is part of the 144,000 to be sealed by GOD and will return with the messiah...
Lol.
Purple Hymnal: You need to invest in some new "senses". Elders ????? That's a hoot. I'm sure they have more important things to do.
Can't be Canadian because we can't spell and everyone knows that you get kicked out of Canada if you can't spell. Maybe that is why we have a smaller population than the US.
Has J seen any bears lately? Have you listened to the way he describes his mother? and if I keep going... I might classify as one as well. See ...... it is sooooo easy to mock. All it takes is a little meanspiritedness (probably not a real word but I'm a Canadian, ay)
God has taught me differently. He has tamed my tongue for good reason
Purple Hymnal: You need to invest in some new "senses". Elders ????? That's a hoot. I'm sure they have more important things to do.
Can't be Canadian because we can't spell and everyone knows that you get kicked out of Canada if you can't spell. Maybe that is why we have a smaller population than the US.
Has J seen any bears lately? Have you listened to the way he describes his mother? and if I keep going... I might classify as one as well. See ...... it is sooooo easy to mock. All it takes is a little meanspiritedness (probably not a real word but I'm a Canadian, ay)
God has taught me differently. He has tamed my tongue for good reason
I guess it was worth repeating? : )
We're listening, ((Purple)).
I go where the conversation is. I do like Mike's blog.
I responded on my blog, O.
A section from that response.
Talking about getting together for some festival, Ron mentioned Swine flu at 10:55 – Europe is predicting large numbers of people coming down with swine-flu. He’s repeating what someone else said, not prophesying.
One of the thunders was that more people would die of disease. Again, not specific. This is totally predictable, more people, bad diets, and the ever present chance of viruses mutating. CDC and NHS are all aware of these eventualities.
Dill Weed
Dill Weed: Who are you arguing with? No one has said that he was prophesying. He wasn't even predicting, just commenting on what was said in the news. That's what he said. Ron hasn't said that there are more celebrity deaths, I haven't said there are more celebrity deaths than usual. Are there? Maybe .. maybe not. Time will tell. Lets keep things honest. People will make observations. That's ok but we need to remember that observations are just that, observations, and just because a Weinland follower observes something doesn't mean that Ron has observed it.
Michael Jackson one of the 144,000 ... a scary thought indeed.
If you were elders, it would be quite concerning that faith in Ron could not be better defended than - one can't understand unless God gives it.
No disrespect intended, but I haven't seen much of a defense mounted. But, let us put that aside.
Both WO and O have said they believe the timeline cannot be changed without Ron exposing himself as a false prophet. I couldn't agree more.
Going into scripture and all that is tiresome and never would overcome or legitimize the claims Ron has made. I am having serious doubts about Ron's sincerity. But, I can't read peoples minds. I can only evaluate evidence, objective evidence through a rational process.
Dill Weed
Not trying to debate, O. Just making a statement. I wish Ron would make more specific prophesies though.
Dill Weed
I wish Ron would make more specific prophesies though.
He learned his lesson well with the failure of his first timeline, and isn't doing too much.
Sounds like we're going to get a 51st "truth" at the Last Great Day sermon.
I waver back and forth on this point. But most of the time I believe that Ron is drinking his own Flavor Aid and at the same time is not adverse to living well because after all he's going to die in the streets of Jerusalem in less than time and times.
I would hesitate to criticize J. Maybe it's his mother who keeps pushing Weinlandism on him. I'm going through a situation like that with a parent who feels the need to force beliefs on me. Respect for ones parent has some limits -- respect is a starting point but respect has to be maintained and reciprocated. And no, I'm not trying to change my parent's views. And want the same consideration in return.
And Observer, everything you say is controversial ;) But the reason your comment was deleted was the Anonymous thing.
Should I cross my fingers against Ron's death curse for another 11 weeks 'til I get past the 40 week point? Nah, that would be even further away from speeedy.
You don't kill the goose that lays golden eggs and a person gets to believing their own interpretations of the bible and if they begin to see themselves as being used by God - the more resistance they meet the strong their belief becomes. But, Ron has picked a role with a definite end and set the timeline. He's locked in. I can not really see a way out for him. That probably means a bad ending. : (
I think I've cycled through enough conversations to need a pause. I'd like to say - I have warm regard for WO and O. I wish them the best - no matter what happens. I am concerned about what may come.
Regards,
Dill Weed
"Before that some or, at times, most of second tithe was sent in for books advertising, etc ... NOT FOR RON"S PLEASURE."
So, how do you know where Ron is spending the money? The answer is YOU DON'T KNOW. You don't know because he doesn't share that information because he thinks he doesn't have to. He's in charge, it's his money to spend as he sees fit.
The IRS is asking some of those questions now.
With followers like O and WO, Weinland himself doesn't need to do any damage control. They make the excuses for him. It's all quite tidy.
And Observer, you misunderstand me. I'm not brandishing any disrespect for my mother. In our conversations we get quite flustered. I don't throw out insults about the guy, I bring notice to all the wrong things he's said and done. I don't mock her beliefs, just try to put a dent in her faith in Weinland. The bald quip was just me being cute at the end. ;)
But let it be known, I AM a mocker of Weinland, and so is my brother. I will post here so you take notice that I still live. Each and every day of my life is a testament to Ron's failure to bring about my untimely death.
J, the feast and Last Great Day ar still being kept with going before God for the whole 8 days whatever you may think of it. It still involves coming before God daily to here his words, rejoicing which is celebrating in any way, and sitting each day to here the message. Where it says something about sitting in booths it doesn't say sit there 24/7 for 7 days.
Slippery slope, my friend. If you change the way things are observed, you open the door to not observing them at all. In a similar vein, look at clean/unclean meats. Having you observe 50% of the Feast is like saying "it's ok to eat pork, but you cannot eat any other unclean meats" or "you are allowed to work on Friday nights, but not Saturday in the daytime", or perhaps even "it's ok not to tithe if you don't think you can afford it". All it takes is a loose thread to unravel a tapestry.
I chuckled at my mother saying "you don't have to pay tithe on money spent on college tuition". Quite generous of Weinland I thought, but it seemed quite transparent. I still WORKED for that money, and somehow it's exempt? Tithe is between the giver and God, not the giver and the pastor. An obvious attempt to entice young people to leave other COGs for PKG, I thought. I happily tithe 10% of my income. It's about having a giving attitude, and not a giving attitude with an asterisk.
J, I recommend that if you wish to get along with your mom more you should make an effort to drop Weinland conversations as they don't seam to amount to much. You mocking Ron doesn't tell her anything. She will still respect you if you don't believe what truth she knows. Should you not do the same if you think you are right?
For the record, I never bring up Weinland. Never, never, never, never. I threatened to block her e-mail account because she won't stop shoving this stuff down our throats (all her kids). She always brings him up herself. All she needs is a lead-in. Usually if someone brings up the economy, she'll get into a Weinland doomsday rant, complete with claims about FEMA-run death camps and mind control via TV signals.
I don't spend time with her anymore because I know she can't help herself. I do nothing to get her going, and when she does get going, all I want to do is leave.
You mocking Ron doesn't tell her anything.
Us mocking Ron doesn't tell you anything, and you defending Ron doesn't tell us anything either, so why are you here? We're each shaking our heads at the other's reply. Sometimes I wonder why any of us bothers. It's an repeating time loop.
J, the feast is being kept and not half kept. I've explained it and you still don't understand it. I might just as well copy and paste what I last said but that's clasified as spam and I don't like spam either. As far as college money, you are making it in order to go to College so I can understand it. Depending on how you get the money, there might also be other reasons If you don't trust the minister you don't belong in the Church. That goes for anyone who donates to any church or religious institution.
J my friend, you claim tithing is giving as well as the importance of obeying God's law. The rest I say out of genuine concern for you. Not talking to your mom or not spending time with her because of beliefs is in no way obedience to God's law my friend. Threating to block her email due to what she does with it is also great error and the infringement of basic rights. I'm just calling a spade a spade. If someone here knows her I would advise them to help her change her password. I do advise you not to go that far. Although you don't like it I pray for you as I write this. It is unfortunate that you didn't get much time in WCG and the opportunity to learn the truth. I can only hope God would have helped me in those conditions such as those of the WCG in 1993. At the time of yourmother's calling things were as good as falling apart with Tkach having pre-planned the 1994 sermon.
You won't believe Ron or the truths revealed to him. You can't. I would advise you to pray for help to se the truth and/or to improve yourself in any way possible. It isn't wise to hurt others by mocking their beliefs. There is a difference between worning and
imposing info. You told her Ron is false as you believe it to be the case. That's all you can and should do.
Do some praying. Look at God's laws. Strive to obey them. That's all I can say.
I'm here because I get to talk about Ron here. Few know about him anywhere else where I'm located and few seam interested in him. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a loner or anything. I just think this is a place where I can talk about stuff few if any around me know or care about. Also, I hope some here will come to see the truth. Another reason is to talk to some friendly and interesting people I've met here.
Best wishes.
J: So maybe you are respectful to your mother. I was simply going by the things you said yourself. I'm glad to hear that I am wrong. I can't comment on the tuition thing since I have not heard anything about it but, since Ron is all about tithes, why would he want to draw non-tithing students to PKG. Not for the future since time is very short. Sorry, I can't see the logic there. Perhaps your mother misunderstood. It surprises me that she continually "brings Weinland" into the conversation. This completely goes against what Ron himself would suggest and I know from experience that it just leads to contention. We are to live at peace with each other as much as it is in our power to do so.
And about the bald comment. I knew you were joking ... I just couldn't resist the Elisha story. : )
I may have been overly sensitive about the respect thing. You see, I have 5 children and they don't believe in obeying God's Law. I'm sure that the reason your Mom is "on your case" is because she loves you. It's hard to stop being a Mom. : ) If I offended you, I am sorry.
As for why I'm here: I have been asking myself the same question. If I am causing the mockers to increase their mocking, I am doing more harm than good. If I myself am becoming a mocker, shame on me. I need to repent. I guess for awhile I stayed because of WO. That mothering instinct is pretty strong. : ) I wanted to make sure he would be ok. I have no doubt that he will be fine. He has a wonderful attitude and the patience of Job. It may be time for me to go back to observing. I have enjoyed sparring with Dill Weed. I didn't expect to change his mind on things just maybe to get him to think a little more about Who he might really be mocking. I am not "running away", by the way. I just want to make sure I am pleasing God in all that I say and do.
Todd and Purple Hymnal: I owe you both an apology for "talking down to you."
Kerrily: I hope you find some answers. I think I need to say this. You say that you know exactly where I'm coming from and how I think/feel. I would like to respectfully say, "No you don't."
WO: You seem to be technically and legally challenged here. Anyone has the right to set up a filter in their email account to block reception of anyone else's email. And it has nothing to do with knowing what the other person's password is. J's mother has the right to send emails to J, and he has the right to block reception. If someone sends you a letter, perhaps you would view it a violation of their rights to throw it in the trash unopened.
As you, I hope more here on this blog will come to recognize the truth. Two in particular.
Observer: You may rest assured that I have not increased or decreased my mocking on your account.
And Kirrily has found one answer already, which is that Weinland is false. This will clear the path for her to find other answers.
J: I agree.
J: I recall that you are quite young too from your posts here - I think you said you are 25??
Anyway, you are certainly handling the situation well with your mum (Aussies spell it mum, I think it's mom over there).
It's not easy - just ask my husband.
He really enjoyed it when I said his whole family would die in the tribulation because of their pride (ha! lol now! it was ME with the pride!! PKG'ers just don't see it - till the leave that is!).
Ah yes, those were the days.
I don't know how I have any friends at all left.
I didn't loose one! Amazing.
In fact, most of them were so kind hearted to me (all my friends are athiests by the way - ALL of them) offfered themselves as a shoulder to cry on etc etc.
Incredible too, as Ron's message was meant to be for the WORLD - I can name at least 40 of my ATHEIST friends who now believe Sabbath, Holy Days, hate of XMas etc as CULT BELIEFS. After all they have witnessed with me and PKG, they can NOT understand why I still don't do Xmas, try to keep Sabbath etc. But, as they love me, they still accept me - again, atheists are so kind.
I ask, if these truths are indeed truths (and I still think they are btw) then how much harder is it going to be for my many ATHEIST(they really are a lot nicer than ANY christian I have EVER known) friends to follow Sabbath etc?
Again, if that is God's aim through Ron, to be a witness to the WORLD who He is working through - it has FAILED, and has in fact, had the opposite desired effect.
See all, O has just proven, once again, that Athiests are a LOT nicer to be around!!
Again, ah yes, the Pride that belongs to PKG'ers is very, very, very evident.
As myself and XHWA (I think??) are the only X PKG members here, I personally have found O's comments to be extremely hurtful, condesending, prideful, arrogant, beligerent, mean, and superior. Again, all traits of members of PKG - who are blind to it themselves.
You will found out one day O - I truly hope people will be there for you as people where there for me.
You should have more respect for those who once 'walked with you side by side in council blended sweet' - instead, you stick the knife in.
I am sensitive, and it does hurt.
J, the feast is being kept and not half kept. I've explained it and you still don't understand it.
It's being half kept. There is no sacred assembly on the first day, therefore it is not being kept according to the Bible's command. I understand the things you say just fine, I just choose to ignore it. You interpret God's commands far too much. Look at what's on the page.
Threating to block her email due to what she does with it is also great error and the infringement of basic rights. I'm just calling a spade a spade. If someone here knows her I would advise them to help her change her password.
Threat[en]ing to block an e-mail address is my right. No one has the right to spam someone with mail. What the heck do you mean by "changing her password?". What does that have to do with anything?
I would advise you to pray for help to se the truth and/or to improve yourself in any way possible. It isn't wise to hurt others by mocking their beliefs. There is a difference between worning and imposing info.
Blah blah blah, there you go with your insults again. Take a look at the things you write and tell me you don't find yourself wise in your own eyes. Don't advise me to do anything. Get it through your mind, I will not pray to God to open my eyes to your twisted beliefs. It goes against everything I believe. Don't be naive enough to think anyone would do that.
And believe me, she does not warn. She imposes. I had asked her on two separate occasions not to send me Weinland-related mail. On this third time, I had to take a serious stand. It sounds like she finally got it.
WO, a lot of your posts come off as preaching. You keep telling me how to pray and what to pray for. Preaching is against the posting rules.
Mike, I misunderstood the block aspect. I thought it referred to hacking an email or disabling it.
Observer, I see what you mean. This blog has been a great place to post on but I admit I had more time on my hands than I otherwise would. I probably was able to share more of the truth on this blog than anywhere else. It's been great conversation, over 200 comments in the previous two posts. Then again I realize it will end up changing or ending. Eventually/possibly now, people will have asked all the questions they want and we won't have much to answer or comment on. I'll keep posting as long as I feel anything comes from it. I know what you mean about obeying God. Maybe it's time for us to do more studying of the info on the websites again. I don't think you and I have done anything wrong here. Regardless, the stuff being posted here will decrease in volume if you and I stop posting here and possibly even if we don't. As Kirrily said, people had the opportunity to learn about God's people by seeing 3D personalities rather than just belief lists. We'll be observing for sure. I have no clue how long I'll be posting. It will depend on people here: how much they say or don't say. I'll be reading for sure and you appear to be planning on doing the same thing in the future. I never thought I'd have such a great experience online. I don't even know your name as you don't know mine. Yet, I feel that through God we have become close even knowing only as much as we know about each other. This reminds me of the many times Ron talks about how God's spirit works in people and makes them even closer than physical family because it's God's own spiritual family, the Kingdom of God in embrio. I'm not even baptized yet so I have this deep thanksgiving before God for giving me this experience.
I always enjoy hearing from you and I hope I still can once in a while. There's always emailing mike and ask him for my email if Mike wishes to give it to you. Then there's the more likely option of you posting occasionally and me replying, or vice versa. Maybe before or after the Sabbath. Let me know what you think about that ay? ?
Again it's been nice knowing you. I will pray for you to come through and I know you will for me. I am in good hands spiritually and physically, and God has put good people around me. The fact that I have a good physical condition and the right to even be listening to the truth and talking to you here is testemony of this.
Hopefully we both continue at the red sea and follow God, fighting the spiritual giants until we achieve entrence to the Promissed land in less than 3 years. God's will, not our's be done. Take care and please do talk to me occasionally. While you are planning on not posting I would love a reply if you don't mind. I hope I meet you in the future, and yet I know I will at some point no matter when it is.
Hope to continue hearing from you from time to time.
God speed the new world!
God's eace and love be with you.
Weinland Observer
WO said:
"This reminds me of the many times Ron talks about how God's spirit works in people and makes them even closer than physical family because it's God's own spiritual family, the Kingdom of God in embrio. I'm not even baptized yet so I have this deep thanksgiving before God for giving me this experience."
Well said WO. This is how I felt too when in PKG. Again, this is something that all here can learn about the mindset of PKG.
The word 'embrio" is very fitting too, as when people are disfellowshipped, or leave - they are treated like an aborted feteous (I can't spell either!).
Thank goodness I had my lovely, kind and sweet athiest friends to cushion my fall.
On a lighter note, Aussies say 'hey' and Kiwis say 'aye.
My hubbie has a Canadian friend, and the accent is quite different to an American isnt' it :-)
Have a great day/night.
J, I'm not preaching. It's a discussion.Someone asks questions, I give answers, vice versa. It's that sort of thing. I'm sorry. I won't advise you anymore. There would be no point anyway. I'm sorry I misunderstood the email. I thought by blocking her email you meant blocking her access to it. Again, my appologies. I stand by what I have been given as you by what has been given to you. If I were talking to you face to face realize that you would not find me the way you do here as I would probably not say too much about Ron.
I read your mother's email. She is sharing her beliefs because of her love to everyone she knows. She is stronger than me. I will only do something similar to this when the second trumpet sounds.
Kirrily, to this day I don't understand why you are treated with disrespect by anyone in cog-pkg if you indeed are. There is no place for this with God's love.
Also, I know what you mean by some atheists being kinder than some religious people. I'll give you an example from Eastern Europe as I enjoy international news. After Communist rule and inforced atheism in the country with religious people being killed and less than 12 Orthodox priests surviving, Albania had a tolerant president who improved the economy and international relations. He was followed by a Socialist who was Roman Catholic and there was a great deal of corruption. When the president who was an Atheist came back in power after the 2005 elections he reduced crime rate 7-fold. Thought I'd share that with you.
Here are ten facts on Canada.
1. Our capital is Ottawa.
2. Our sound is ay.
3. We call fries frenchfries.
4. We are bilingual, English and French being spoken.
5. We are larger than the US in land area but 10 times smaller in population.
6 . Most NHL players are Canadian.
7. Hockey is our invention.
8. A canadian invented basketball.
9. A man from New Brunswick John Humphrey wrote the Declaration of human Rights.
10. We don't live in igloos!
Hi WO. I will indeed keep in touch. I guess it will be here for now but I'm quite certain that we will meet sooner or later; sooner if your mother gives her approval for you to have contact with the Church. As Anne of Green Gables would say, "We are kindred spirits." I'm just a much older one. : )
Kirrily: Sorry but I am baffled as to what I may or may not have said to so deeply offend you. It was not intended. This may help me to understand your belief that people from PKG have mistreated you.
So, what I've gathered from the past few days with Observer and WO commenting on this site:
1) They can't point to any prophecies of Ron that have been fulfilled. They accept Ron's claim that he is a prophet in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
2) They don't know how Ron spends their money- other than they believe he is using it for God's work. The evidence is that he spends it on lavish trips around the world, merely to keep his flock in line to continue sending him money to his P.O. Box.
3) Observer has drank the flavoraid more than WO.
4) Facts are irrelevant for Observer and WO. "He never said that", "He didn't mean that", "You misunderstood..." are common ways to deflect the conversation.
5) Nobody in Ron's church has the wherewithal to create a forum for Weinland supporters. The one who HAD that has since branded Weinland a false prophet and stopped blogging.
"We know Ron uses tithes to do God's work."
No "we" don't, and no "you" don't either. Google ad words are there to create more tithe slaves like yourself. He uses the Internet to promote his business. He knows there's an appetite out there for "Nostradamus". His minions were searching the Internet for end-of-the-world propaganda and so you ALL were predisposed to his solution to save your skin.
Also, I have not heard even ONE prophecy that has been fulfilled. Not one. Just name it and explain what Ron said and also the proof it has been fulfilled.
Repost/answer to Mark's comment. Thanks for not deleting Mike.
Mark, you gather this but every point is incorrect.
1. I specificallly stated several prophesies.
2. We know Ron uses tithes to do God's work. If he didn't, I wouldn't have found out about Ron through google ads and come across his website on dictionary.com of all places.
3. We both believe the truth we were given. I would love to know how you came to this conclusion.
4. We mearly clear up misunderstandings and deny outright lies or false alligations.
5. I am trying to create such a blog and believe one exists. The Weinland Witness forum is still there. It boggles my mind why it isn't used. Well there is one according to a comment on the Weinland Witness forum but the site hasn't been posted. I do wish there was something for those who aren't yet baptized as well. The facebook group isn't doing much for me as I haven't been excepted or declined yet.
Mike, if there were such a forum/blog/website, would it be okay for you to post it if you found out about it?
Answer to last comment
Yes, I do admit I believed we were going to have a Third World War before hearing about Ron. I believed something was probably going to happen in 2012. I did believe the world was unjust and that very few were trying to aachieve world peace. god molded and fashioned those beliefs in me to prepare me for my calling. The ads were paid for by tithes. Tithes are used to advertise so that they can reach people, and those who are called and then tithe contribute to reaching more people. If you want to call it business that's fine. I too believe it's business, God's business. I already explained the prophesies. Unemployment predicted rise for May from that of April and the thunders. Two propehesies, one having come to pass, one a gift that keeps on giving. That they have been ignored here is another matter. That the prophesy on the economy appearing to be improving and those hopes eventually being shattered will come to pass be discreddited by some here is also another matter. Sure others have predicted economic collapse in this way. However they wil not and did not predict what would happen next and why. It is the 50 truths and particularly the 50th truth that convince me and the prophesies that further convince me.
WO, Mike probably didn't delete your post because he hadn't gotten to it yet. You'd best copy and repaste it.
J was correct. I've been busy this evening working with another artifact of Weinlandism.
WO: I most likely would consider such the same as what you attempted earlier and about which we had an email exchange. Perhaps a direct email exchange in advance would be better, although I may be as timely as Johnny over the next few days. Keep in mind my position as advanced in those emails.
Take some time over the next few days and take in the fresh air, taking advantage of your summer holiday. And most of all, reconsider well the basis of what you're believing.
Mike, the fact that I have been posting quite a bit here is no indication on how my summer is going. I may spend a bit more than average time online, but that's been that way for several years even before I heard about Ron. I think of complex questions, can't get them answered anywhere, and find answers or try to find them online. As an example I'll state the following.
1. When I was in grade one I told my teacher that he didn't ever know exactly what I was thinking and that I didn't really know exactly what he was thinking. Then I stated that he didn't really know exactly what it was like being me and I didn't know what it was like to be him. Then I topped it off by saying that made us unique. Someone told me about that one. I don't personally recall it.
2. In grade 2 I asked my parents and my teacher how someone can be born and how it is possible to not exist along with what it feels like.
As far as my summer vacation, it's going/ will be great. A few out of town trips, the beach several times although Canadian wehather is oftten half windy even when it's warm. Would like to go to another country, might happen might not. I can't be specific, only general here.
I hope you're busy because you're enjoying your summer Mike!
Once again... just think if all these death curses, both verbal on his recorded sermans and in his book, would come true.
Can you imagine the joy that would overflow ol Ron when God started to kill off all the competition and mockers to Rons Way?
Ron would be extatic to see the large splinters of WWCG go leaderless... what a ego boast that would be. To learn that his mockers where dieing off would lend credance to Rons will... after all it's not a time for a-healin anymore... it's a time for killin! ...as his book clearly shows.
:-)
"This reminds me of the many times Ron talks about how God's spirit works in people and makes them even closer than physical family because it's God's own spiritual family, the Kingdom of God in embrio"
Love Bombing
i think the exact word for it is "sycophant"
Kirrily, you said
"The word 'embrio" is very fitting too, as when people are disfellowshipped, or leave - they are treated like an aborted feteous (I can't spell either!)."
and,
"Thank goodness I had my lovely, kind and sweet athiest friends to cushion my fall".
As we know, there are people in the ministry who really aren't good people (the wolves).
And there are people in the congregation who really aren't good people either (the tares).
And as Paul said, the Gentile who keeps the righteousness of the law will judge the Jew who has the written code, but yet doesn't keep the law,
So it is with the Atheist who is a good and moral person.
That is, the Atheist who is a good person, will judge those who profess to follow Christ, but yet are not themselves a good person.
Take THAT, Ron! (couldn't resist
mocking, does that make me bad?)
Whisper, death isn't something Ron is excited about. He knows what is coming and why. He once said it would be a blessing for him to be a false prophet because it could mean there is another way but that there wasn't. All will come to pass for the purpose God is working out, to call those who will live on to a new age.
Purple Hymnal, get over the love bombing aspect. If someone wants to be nice to me they are welcome to be. This blog has been great. Hopefully it will stay that way although I have doubts on it. It was great while it lasted.
RKPDRMR, tru it is the last statement you made. Ron was just an unnecessary addition in my oppinion although it was vital to your post.
I'll be around. Don't think I'm not.
If I ever don't reply to something for a good while, hours, days, it just means I haven't checked back because I'm doing something else. The only reason I mention this is I don't want people to think I am ignoring them. I am seldom ignored and rarely ignore.
Ooops - sorry for the typo folks. I'm in a arm brace which makes typing a little tricky. I should have proofed before I posted.
Speaking of deleting...
Hey J what's up. I would love to ask you something that would not produce a dead end conversation. Tell me a bit about yourself. I'm sure you're a nice guy and that we would get along if we had other things to talk about other than Weinland, which we can't do here.
Hey WO, I appreciate that you also notice that Weinland conversations never seem to go anywhere. They never will as long as opinions are polarized.
I don't wish to give too many personal details, but I'm 25, married, and a member of UCG. Hobbies include Star Trek and video games.
Since I suppose this post is about you and O, we can't really go off-topic, can we? :)
FBI Report: Project Meggido
SEE!.....SYCOPHANT
J, I didn't mean this blog was about me and Observer , but about Weinland. I do think there would be less posts if we weren't on here as there were before we came to this blog. In a way, this particular topic is about all of us as we all fit in to one of the two categories or at least wish to.
Purple Hymnal, great article. Unfortunately, the governments themselves do some of these actions. Many seam to preach support for Zionism, hatred of other religions, and the need for Israel to take over the world for Jesus to return. The NWO is real. Masons are satanic. Builderberg and the rest are part of it. I'm still trying to figure out whether they wil be the ones that will fight the 144000 at the final battle. Maybe they wil come together to fight as a world government. I'm not sure but it is possible. On a final note: suicide bombers of all religions, templars, zionists, and others are in the same basket.
Wow - I guess I didn't put my name as I thought I did - my post was deleted. What I said was that I thought it was ironic that Observer stated: "the Bible is clear about what God thinks about people who sin and encourage others to do the same." That's exactly what Ron and Laura did when they urged followers to purchase things on credit plans, take out second mortgages, not pay taxes, etc., because soon there would be no banks, IRS, etc., to make them pay. That's stealing. I'm sure Mike can find the comments related to this. I know that Ron recently stated that he regreted making those purchases because he now has to pay for them since his timeline didn't pan out as he predicted.
How do you explain this Observer?
Misfit, First of all, Ron never incouraged this. He never said not too pay taxes, etc. People simply did it out of what they thought. As for the timeline that was given after the 50th truth, it's a lie that it didn't pan out. It didn't fail. Everything Ron said since Dec. 14 has come to pass and will come to pass. Ron himself stated this.
there was never a 45-90 day period. It was in the timeline that Ron believed before the perfect timing was given by God through the 50th truth.
I already explained about the overspending aspect, Ron repented.
I will continue to state what I said last year that Ronald Weinland and PKG is not a real place for worship. If you want to be a real christian or in a true church of God, PKG is not the place. Ron & Laura do not have the best interests of fence sitters, curious, prospective, newly baptized, semi-new, or well-established members at heart. Ron Weinland and the Church of PKG does not truly care about its people. The church members are semi-friendly, but once a person does not something Ron does not like that is reported by a member you are gone. The people you were close to in the particular church abandon you immediately. This is the rule not the exception. Any church that turns you away quickly is not a real church. You may add this reason on top of all the failed prophecies and Bible verses that have been altered by Weinland. I am sure that the time line will be changed again in 2010 or 2011 or even Jesus Christ return will in 2012 will be spiritualized away.
K: "As myself and XHWA (I think??) are the only X PKG members here"
Weeeellllllll, technically I'm not x PKG. I was pre-PKG. When I was, ummmmm, told I was no longer wanted around (because my membership in the corporate organization posed a threat to Ron's removal of the board) it was still "Church of God, Inc."
But I am x Ron Weinland!
Sorry. Thought I'd clear that up unless someone thought I was with PKG recently.
WO, I was referring to this post, not the entire blog. It's entitled Mockers and Observers.
"I will continue to state what I said last year that Ronald Weinland and PKG is not a real place for worship."
!!w!! It's so good to hear from you, we were worried after you dropped out of sight, last year. Wow, has it already been a year, since we've gone through this back-and-forthing with the believers? Times does fly.
I hope things are going well for you and yours! And "w2" as well.
Best wishes,
Aggie (PH)
Aaargh TIME does fly I mean. LOL no I am not getting started on the time and times schtick of Witless Weinland. ;-)
xpkgw: Have you formerly blogged with a shortened version of this handle? On Ironwolf?
Based on your handle I'm going to ask:
Did you chose your exit or did Ron?
Regarding timeline changes, I think Ron will get some more mileage out of this one with a 51st "truth" handed out on the LGD. I don't expect the change to timeline #3 before next year sometime.
Welcome back t the land of the living, W!
W is here. Purple Hymnal is here. Ekims is here. Shadows is here. Heck, I feel like this is a reunion of sorts!!
I just have to join in!
Seams to me my time here is done. I'm not offended or anything like that, but I can see most people think Observer and I are getting old. This isn't some sort of resignation of posting. I'll be Weinland Observing and blog surfing. Trust me, I have other plans for the summer too.
I'll jump in when I think I should and comment on something. Feel free to say hi and ask me anything. I'll be around and I won't hesitate to post.
This is basically turning in to an Xcog member reunion forum so I won't spoil the party. No offence to anyone. I'll still be around but will post less. Here is what I will do from hereon out.
1. I won't re-answer questions that I have answered once on any given thread.
2. I won't comment on little parties here. That's something that is special to some in their little ways and I don't want to interfere in that.
3. I will still comment on inquiries to me or any other questions or comments that need answerings. Ex: misunderstandings.
4. I honestly think this blog is going to start getting boring without Dill and Observer and that this will only become even more so without me posting much.
Keep your ways.
Keep your ideas.
Live your life.
I will do the same and may God continue to work in all who he works in.
God help us all.
And bring many more to glory.
Amen.
WO
Before you go, I left some links for you on the last thread. Wanted to know if you've seen them and had a chance to read them?
I only put 3 links instead of the 4 I had originally intended... but whatever.
Sorry about my typo, too. I was preparing for vacation and that was all I could concentrate on so I put the wrong date there. I'm fallible!
"Mark, you gather this but every point is incorrect.
1. I specificallly stated several prophesies."
No, you haven't. Saying "thunders" doesn't in any way explain how that prophecy is fulfilled. In fact, I have a slew of evidence to the contrary. Also, a passing comment about unemployment rates going up is NOT prophetic given our current economic climate. That's a prediction. No way would anyone even remotely consider him a prophet based on that.
Name ONE specific prophecy that has been fulfilled. You can't because you have no verifiable proof and if you put it out there you will have a ton of evidence to the contrary.
"2. We know Ron uses tithes to do God's work. "
Again, NO YOU DON'T. ROn is accountable only to himself and I know you would be VERY surprised, as with all the PKG members, if you knew the TRUTH of where every penny is spent. You can't handle the truth.
"3. We both believe the truth we were given. I would love to know how you came to this conclusion."
It is obvious to me that you are still searching for the truth. You haven't made your mind up completely. Observer, on the other hand, is your rand and file Weinlandnazi.
"4. We mearly clear up misunderstandings and deny outright lies or false alligations."
You haven't cleared up anything, just quickstepped hard allegations.
"5. I am trying to create such a blog and believe one exists."
Great! You must be very desparate if you are seeking friends on a website which is rabidly anti-Weinland. Maybe you could ask Ron to divert some of his Luau eating, cruise ship sailing, and Down Under trodding green backs to fund a youth group. It won't happen. You know why? Because Ron and Laura are in early retirement and are traveling the globe on the backs of his tithe slaves.
"I honestly think this blog is going to start getting boring without Dill and Observer and that this will only become even more so without me posting much."
Boring to you I'd imagine. This blog's been quite interesting to me long before you came along and will continue to be long after you aren't posting anymore.
young man thinks pretty highly of himself, wouldn't you say mark?
that's not prideful though is it?
lol
I don't know how young he really is though. Might be a big ruse.
Ever wonder how Weinland followers justify sipping lattes from Starbucks that they know is breaking the sabbath? Tsk, Tsk. Seems to me a prophet shouldn't be breaking the sabbath like that. I see no ox in the ditch anywhere in that picture.
xHWA I would read the plain truth magazines, all of them. However Adobi Acrobat is irratating me as I can't seam to figure out how to get it to work properly. THe text that does come up ends up jumbled. If only they would stick to txt and doc, and by they I mean everyone!
I never said I wouldn't post here anymore, just that I may end up posting less. In case anyone hasn't noticed, thisblog-Observer-Dill = a reduced number of posts. That-Weinland Observer would be even less.
It is clear that large amounts of money are spent on advertising. Also, I actually am 15 and I see no reason to doubt this. To top this off, I never said I came on this site just to find friends and am not desperate for friends as I have many. I have been keen on coming here to talk about Ron and met many people here, some of which don't post as much. I already explained everything on the five point list. Either you get it or you don't.
I'm not going away, just evolving to a blog that will begin having a much smaller number of posts.
xHWA, I hope you enjoyed your vacation.
Again, I never said I wouldn't be posting here, just that it might, Might, happen a little less often for several reasons. Right here I'll just state a couple of them: life, less comments to respond to here, questions that I already answered.
I am learning one thing. We do need to agree to disagree and understand or nothing will come from the comments on this blog.
WO said: First of all, Ron never incouraged this. He never said not too pay taxes, etc.
Baloney. Listen to his statement on taxes. And don't give us your apologetic nonsense that because he didn't speak the exact words "don't pay your taxes" that he didn't say it. That message was extremely clear to his followers.
I already explained about the overspending aspect, Ron repented.
More apologetic nonsense and baloney. Ron didn't repent. He regretted. You probably don't understand the difference, but I do.
WO:
However Adobi Acrobat is irratating me as I can't seam to figure out how to get it to work properly. THe text that does come up ends up jumbled. If only they would stick to txt and doc, and by they I mean everyone!
Well WO, it seems we have a generational difference here. Some things you've probably never experienced:
-- telephones with actual dials
-- cars with dimmer switches on the floor. Oops, you're still a bit young even for that distinction
-- "do not fold, spindle, or mutilate"
-- mimeograph machines.
Mimeograph machines are how the earliest Plain Truths were published. Well in advance of .doc files or .txt files. Heck, well in advance of the definition of ASCII code. Probably you don't understand that .txt files are composed with ASCII coded characters. 1934 was the era of Hollerith code.
But I must say, for someone of your generation, you are technically challenged if you have problems viewing PDF and JPG files. My 4 1/2 year-old grandson already knows how to drive a mouse and probably by the time he's 8 will be well conversant in that type of thing.
Good morning WO: I am no wiz when it comes to computers but I have been able to find some good articles here with no problem. Hope it works for you.
http:www.herbert-w-armstrong.org/indexwcg.html Happy reading. It should keep you busy if it works on your computer.
I know that part of your reason for staying here is that you don't want to offend anyone (you have a good heart) but remember, we offend simply because we believe what we do. Take care and enjoy the sunshine. : )
Observer, your link is broken. Use this link instead. But it won't do WO any good, as he is technically challenged and not able to read the PDF files there. Or view JPGs.
"Observers", the fact that you believe what you do dosen't offend me. The fact that you believe without any proof in favor and lots of proof in opposition is just amazing. Watching you duck, bob, and weave in this discussion has been interesting. Your beliefs don't offend me, I just find them ridiculous fiction, and that you hold them appalling and amazing.
Observer: When you said to Kirrily, (after misspelling her name)
I hope you find some answers. I think I need to say this. You say that you know exactly where I'm coming from and how I think/feel. I would like to respectfully say, "No you don't."
Now that was pure BS. Kirrily has been where you are and better than anyone else here would know where you're coming from. The answers you think she should find are the wrong ones.
Kirrily has figured out the most important answer -- that to the question of whether or not Weinland really is God's witness.
And you know what? She figured it out on her own. Without the influences of "rabid Weinland haters" and "demon inspired" bloggers such as myself. Kirrily did not contact me until after she exited on her own, without influence from me. I'm happy to help her in some small way sort through the aftermath. But that help has never been in bolstering her resolve -- she has never expressed the slightest doubt that Ron's prophecies are false.
Eventually Weinland will have to either stop (or be stopped), or he'll have to go to a new timeline. Hopefully when that time comes you will be able to deal with it (better if it happens beforehand). But I rather expect that you'll follow him into his third timeline with equal zeal, parroting his lame justifications.
WO: I used the link I gave you this morning and it works for me. I have an "Apple"; maybe that makes a difference. Give it a try anyway.
WO said:
Well Mike you seam to believe that without a doubt there will be a third timeline. I did listen to the statement on taxes and he never said to not pay them but that it might end up happening that payment is not going to be the same or that maybe there will be no need to worry about paying taxes. Also, I still can't quite understand why you would think we believe without proof. I have proof. Truth, consistency, time cycles, current events, maybe I'm missing something. God gives the proof not man. I can do research and by can I mean have done. However I still won't be able to get it without God. Nobody will.
Observer, Thanks for the advice. I may very well do just that.
I'll eventually figure out this PDF stuff. I might even contact the site for some help at some point in time. For now, there is plenty to listen to and read. So far, I have listened to the first 7 sermons of 2001 and I like to read the entire chapter of scriptures quoted to understand in full context. Then there is always something to pray about. The plain reality is that I won't be able to get through all the material available. I'm just listening to the sermons in order for now. What I realize is that I can understand scriptures but am limited in understanding those related to God's spirit dwelling in humans and exactly how it works. I understand aspects of it but I feel that I need God's spirit before being able to fully understand those verses. Is this a common experience before baptism? Also, this might be hard to answer but if you can: what difference will I notice when I am baptized someday? on that note, I just realized that when I do get baptized it will be by someone in God's family!
Also said some other stuff, which I do get. Don't try it again.
Repeating a point:
Well Mike you seam to believe that without a doubt there will be a third timeline.
WO, you seem (or in your vernacular "seam") to have a perception problem. Since I proposed an alternative, it's clear to those who have eyes to read that I have doubts that there will be a third timeline.
And I understand that you'll argue that since Ronnie didn't speak the words "don't pay your taxes", that he didn't tell his followers that they wouldn't have to pay taxes for 2008. You're quite willing to be literal when it suits you and infer at other times when it suits you.
The only thing consistent with Ron is how wrong he has been. Perhaps God has given proof that he is a false prophet by keeping all 5 of the ministers alive.
Keeping the flow, Observer responded (mostly):
WO: Reading the Bible and listening to sermons and asking God to give you understanding by His Spirit are the best things you could be doing right now. I only gave you the other site because you wanted the info. I haven't used it much myself. I found it one day when I was trying to find the full context of a quote from HWA that I had read. In that instance it was most helpful.
God's Spirit is definitely at work in you. It is apparent by the fruit in your life and your understanding. As I said before, I believe that God has given you a greater measure of His grace because of your young age and the times we live in. I also believe that it is no coincidence that we have met here on this site. It would be a great joy to witness your baptism. Continue to stand in that grace that He has given
And I would respond that the best thing you could do is carefully check out what Ron says Vs reality.
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