Ron Weinland's book "2008 God's Final Witness" has some interesting material which I recently noticed. On page 21, Weinland states:
In addition, at the very end-time, God will give His two witnesses great power to accomplish the work He has for them to do. These two (and others who know them) know exactly the day when Jesus Christ will return. These two will know positively when God gives them this power, and from that time they know that exactly three and one-half years remain.
So back on April 17th during his first timeline, or actually on sunset of the day before, did Ron and Laura "know positively" that they acquired witness powers as they "began their jobs" as the two witnesses?
Ron sure acted like they had, because in the sermon delivered the following Saturday, April 19, he pontificated:
My first exercise in use of power, that God has granted me in Revelation 11, is to you -- you mockers. To you who mock and ridicule God and his prophets. Truly. It begins with you, first and foremost. You will be the first to experience some of the things that begin to take place. You don’t have to wait long. For those who mock from this day forward, by what you say against God’s people, by what you say against the truths of God, by what you say against God's prophets, you will suffer from sickness that will eat you from the inside out. And you will die. Your death will not be quick.”
Weinland was interviewed a couple of weeks later (May 2, 2008) on a radio station about this transition and he (RW) gave this interesting response when queried by the interviewer Mike McConnell (MM).
MM: So uh the night before I mean when the trumpet was about to sound on April the seventeenth did you get a good night’s sleep? The night of the sixteenth into the seventeenth? Or were you too full of anticipation?
RW: [long pause] It was like any other night.
MM: Any other night. OK. Well Ron, we’re gonna talk again, I’d say somewhere around the middle of July how about that?
RW: That sounds great. (This however was his last radio interview with anyone. He reneged on this promise and similar promises to other radio hosts to return and discuss how well his prophecies had been fulfilled.)
Did Weinland delude himself into thinking he'd acquired great witness powers? After all, the biblical day actually begins at sunset on the day before the Roman calendar date. Or as he said in the interview did he realize that nothing had happened and was continuing the charade?
When he repeated this acquisition of witness powers on sunset of the evening prior to December 14, did he feel any different than he did at sunset on April 16th? Will he feel any different when he goes through it a third time, possibly later in this year?
And will his witness powers have more efficacy during his third timeline? Doesn't seem that he has them this time, after all it's the eighth week since he reissued his death curse against me.
(Thanks to Weinland Watch for the quotes from Ron's sermon and interview, and also the title of this post. I thought it was worth recycling with the added quote from Weinland's book. Both for the benefit of those who've started following the Insane Liar recently, and those who might've forgotten this earlier interview.)
Wednesday, February 11, 2009
Sunday, February 8, 2009
Who Are You Going to Believe, Me or Your Lying Eyes?
Note: Dennis Diehl has written a humorous post that captures the essence of Weinland's foolishness.
False Prophet Ronald Weinland was in Bloomington IL this weekend. He read a letter from his Australian evangelist Wayne Matthews which proof-texted the 3rd thunder describing the drought in Australia. While the fires there are certainly significant to those affected and should not be minimized, they should not be elevated to an event of biblical proportion. Wayne took time to mention that "no one died" as a result of the fast in Australia, which is certainly good news. I hope that's also true for the PKG members in the US, New Zealand, Canada, the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands, and anywhere else that there are ensnared followers of this false prophet. Ron went on to read selected news articles with unemployment statistics to support his 4th thunder. There's still no mention of dead ministers relative to his 5th thunder nor any mention of the other 2 phases of his 5th thunder. And nothing on the other thunders which Weinland presumptuously defined.
Reference was made again to Mike A (Washtay) who was described as a 3-year member (now disfellowshipped) who camouflaged his true feelings. I didn't get the impression from Washtay's emails that Washtay is part of the "scattering" (ex-WCG). Perhaps he was recruited by reading Weinland's first book "Prophesied End Time". Three years ago is about the time Ron claimed to be an End-Time Witness (Dec 17, 2005) and also put out his origin of Christ doctrine at the 2005 Feast of Tabernacles. At another point in his sermon Ron mentioned being blamed for a member's family problems, etc. I didn't see anything of that sort mentioned in the emails Washtay shared. So perhaps there's et another exiting member besides Washtay. And there maybe yet another exiting member given Ron's mention of his $381,000 home which was not referred to by Washtay. In fact, Washtay seemed willing to take on blame for whatever failings he had without transferring them to Ron. The problem for Ron was that Washtay wasn't willing to take on the blame for Ron's failings as well. I invite Mike (Washtay) to share to the extent he is comfortable his experiences as a COG-PKG member in comments here on this blog.
Weinland's theme and sermon title related to his commission, of which he has none. Reference was made to a January 1972 "Good News" writeup by Herbert Armstrong on his commission (which he also did not have). I looked at the Jan/Feb 1972 "Good News" and didn't see any article or personal by HWA inside it. Perhaps Ron can clarify, maybe it was a simple misstatement. Co-worker letter maybe? For those uninitiated in things-Armstrong, the "Good News" was a magazine sent out by HWA's WCG only to WCG members.
Ron finally dared to read Deuteronomy 18:20-22 but claimed that it didn't really apply in his case. Let's review Deuteronomy 18:
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
For his first timeline, Ron predicted "nukular" explosions 45 to 90 days after he "began his job" as a Witness at the 1260 day point (April 17, 2008) or by mid-July. In this his second timeline, he "rebegan his job" on December 14. Forty-five days after that was Jan. 28, and 90 days after that is this coming March 14. Also in his "Three More Weeks" sermon on March 29, he issued his "If by Pentecost" declaration in which he promised to stop preaching if evidence of the First Trumpet (destruction of vegetation and animals) was not clearly evident by Pentecost, which was less than 45 days later. So far we see no widespread destruction of plants and animals, but Ron would have you believe that our economic woes fulfills this since printed money happens to be green. The US currency does happen to be green -- is that the case in all the scattered nations of modern day Israel? (UK, Australia, Canada, and others.) It's been awhile since I traveled internationally, but as I recall foreign currency is a rainbow of colors.
Despite the obvious failures, Weinland maintains that he still a prophet of God. For a follower, it all hinges on whether you believe that Ron Weinland truly speaks for God. What evidence of that has he offered? Only his failed prophecies. The test that he defined for himself in his book, the deaths of 5 specific ministers, has not materialized. Not even in part, even though the first minister Ron predicted to die (Rod Meredith) is about 80 years old and has suffered a stroke.
Regarding Ron's attempt to disconnect himself from the "when" of his failed prophecies, where's the time limit? Otherwise, everything he's said will probably come true in the future, though probably not at the same time. Cataclysmic comets have struck the earth in the past, and may again in the future -- thousands or millions of years in the future. Ron, let's draw a definite line in the sand. Oh, scratch that -- you already have.
And then we have Ron's death curse against his critics and mockers who were to speedily die from the inside. His death curse obviously, clearly, includes yours truly. This is the 50th day since he reissued his fatwah, and despite that you see this post. So much for speedily. Those who still believe him are those who believed him initially and "threw down their pitchers" by handing over their life savings to him and breaking family ties with those who didn't follow them into Ron's PKG money pit to finance his prophetic delusions and his country club home. Also still believing him are those who were attracted by his Google ad campaign and are of an apocalyptic mindset.
I hope that Ron's followers will soon open their eyes to clearly see reality and depart from this false prophet before yet more damage is done. And that they will also ignore Weinland's mind-gaming characterization of anyone who dares to think for himself as a sinner. However, I expect that they will follow him into the 51st "truth" whatever that turns out to be and will also follow him into his 3rd timeline.
False Prophet Ronald Weinland was in Bloomington IL this weekend. He read a letter from his Australian evangelist Wayne Matthews which proof-texted the 3rd thunder describing the drought in Australia. While the fires there are certainly significant to those affected and should not be minimized, they should not be elevated to an event of biblical proportion. Wayne took time to mention that "no one died" as a result of the fast in Australia, which is certainly good news. I hope that's also true for the PKG members in the US, New Zealand, Canada, the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands, and anywhere else that there are ensnared followers of this false prophet. Ron went on to read selected news articles with unemployment statistics to support his 4th thunder. There's still no mention of dead ministers relative to his 5th thunder nor any mention of the other 2 phases of his 5th thunder. And nothing on the other thunders which Weinland presumptuously defined.
Reference was made again to Mike A (Washtay) who was described as a 3-year member (now disfellowshipped) who camouflaged his true feelings. I didn't get the impression from Washtay's emails that Washtay is part of the "scattering" (ex-WCG). Perhaps he was recruited by reading Weinland's first book "Prophesied End Time". Three years ago is about the time Ron claimed to be an End-Time Witness (Dec 17, 2005) and also put out his origin of Christ doctrine at the 2005 Feast of Tabernacles. At another point in his sermon Ron mentioned being blamed for a member's family problems, etc. I didn't see anything of that sort mentioned in the emails Washtay shared. So perhaps there's et another exiting member besides Washtay. And there maybe yet another exiting member given Ron's mention of his $381,000 home which was not referred to by Washtay. In fact, Washtay seemed willing to take on blame for whatever failings he had without transferring them to Ron. The problem for Ron was that Washtay wasn't willing to take on the blame for Ron's failings as well. I invite Mike (Washtay) to share to the extent he is comfortable his experiences as a COG-PKG member in comments here on this blog.
Weinland's theme and sermon title related to his commission, of which he has none. Reference was made to a January 1972 "Good News" writeup by Herbert Armstrong on his commission (which he also did not have). I looked at the Jan/Feb 1972 "Good News" and didn't see any article or personal by HWA inside it. Perhaps Ron can clarify, maybe it was a simple misstatement. Co-worker letter maybe? For those uninitiated in things-Armstrong, the "Good News" was a magazine sent out by HWA's WCG only to WCG members.
Ron finally dared to read Deuteronomy 18:20-22 but claimed that it didn't really apply in his case. Let's review Deuteronomy 18:
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
So Ron would have you believe what he prophesied is true yet ignore when he prophesied that it would become true. Let's review for example what he said in his Dec 15, 2007 interview with Daniel Ott on "The Edge" radio program. At the beginning of the program, Daniel asks Ron if he is a "direct and ordered prophet of God". Weinland answers in the affirmative: "that is true". So everything Ron says during the entire interview is speaking in the name of God. Toward the end of the interview, Ron makes his statement that the USA would be "so far down the tubes" by last month that we wouldn't be able to inaugurate a president. Sorry Ron. The "thing" you prophesied includes not only the "what", but also the "when". During the interview, Ron promised to return to explain the failures of his prophecies, but that didn't happen. Daniel had something to say about that. Seems that Ron refused a reinterview back in July and Daniel Ott properly characterized him as a fraud. Not only is Ron a false prophet, but he doesn't keep his word. No wonder that the IRS is investigating him.
For his first timeline, Ron predicted "nukular" explosions 45 to 90 days after he "began his job" as a Witness at the 1260 day point (April 17, 2008) or by mid-July. In this his second timeline, he "rebegan his job" on December 14. Forty-five days after that was Jan. 28, and 90 days after that is this coming March 14. Also in his "Three More Weeks" sermon on March 29, he issued his "If by Pentecost" declaration in which he promised to stop preaching if evidence of the First Trumpet (destruction of vegetation and animals) was not clearly evident by Pentecost, which was less than 45 days later. So far we see no widespread destruction of plants and animals, but Ron would have you believe that our economic woes fulfills this since printed money happens to be green. The US currency does happen to be green -- is that the case in all the scattered nations of modern day Israel? (UK, Australia, Canada, and others.) It's been awhile since I traveled internationally, but as I recall foreign currency is a rainbow of colors.
Despite the obvious failures, Weinland maintains that he still a prophet of God. For a follower, it all hinges on whether you believe that Ron Weinland truly speaks for God. What evidence of that has he offered? Only his failed prophecies. The test that he defined for himself in his book, the deaths of 5 specific ministers, has not materialized. Not even in part, even though the first minister Ron predicted to die (Rod Meredith) is about 80 years old and has suffered a stroke.
Regarding Ron's attempt to disconnect himself from the "when" of his failed prophecies, where's the time limit? Otherwise, everything he's said will probably come true in the future, though probably not at the same time. Cataclysmic comets have struck the earth in the past, and may again in the future -- thousands or millions of years in the future. Ron, let's draw a definite line in the sand. Oh, scratch that -- you already have.
And then we have Ron's death curse against his critics and mockers who were to speedily die from the inside. His death curse obviously, clearly, includes yours truly. This is the 50th day since he reissued his fatwah, and despite that you see this post. So much for speedily. Those who still believe him are those who believed him initially and "threw down their pitchers" by handing over their life savings to him and breaking family ties with those who didn't follow them into Ron's PKG money pit to finance his prophetic delusions and his country club home. Also still believing him are those who were attracted by his Google ad campaign and are of an apocalyptic mindset.
I hope that Ron's followers will soon open their eyes to clearly see reality and depart from this false prophet before yet more damage is done. And that they will also ignore Weinland's mind-gaming characterization of anyone who dares to think for himself as a sinner. However, I expect that they will follow him into the 51st "truth" whatever that turns out to be and will also follow him into his 3rd timeline.
Friday, February 6, 2009
Weinland Vs Washtay: The Knockout
This post is a continuation of Washtay's story from the last post . I may have the order of these emails a bit out of sequence. Washtay, please let me know if this is the case.
Washtay responds to Ron's suspension notice. As before, emails are in italics along with [my comments]
Mr. Weinland,
As I said to you a couple of times, I have been doing considerable thinking and praying over this matter. This has been spiritual torment for me since I felt that all I had believed in just fell to my feet and I was left to sort out the shards of broken me.
I know that not all of what I believe is from you, THANK GOD. My wife asked me about the Sabbath. This, in her mind, is the main staple of my faith (and it is but she doesn't realize the importance of it or the equal importance of the Holy Days or clean and unclean meats) and so she asked me if I would still not work on Friday nights and Saturdays. Obviously she is eager for me to be able to make more money again. Nonetheless, right away I told her that the Sabbath and the Holy Days and clean and unclean meats are something I WILL NOT give up. I will hold to that as a truth from God and allow Him to guide me as He will. I told her that I did not get that truth from you but from God. I am thankful for those truths and will always owe all I have in life (and life itself) to my awesome Creator. You asked me if my calling was from God and to the true church (not in so many words) or not.
To answer this is not as simple as one may expect. Yes, I do believe that it was God who called me. Yes, I believe that He answered those many, many prayers I had when I asked him where to go, how to worship Him. I do not just believe, I know He did. The difficult part of the answer lies in not whether or not He called me but why and to whom? Upon reading a scripture in 1 Kings I began to think it may be possible in God's ultimate plan to test someone who comes to Him with pleas to determine whether or not that said person will follow Him (their God) or a person (a mere man).
1 Kings 22:19-23 depicts a point in time where God actually used a false prophet to do His work. He not only USED a false prophet but He allowed them to be MADE into false prophets by lying spirits(undoubtedly this was Lucifer).
Paul and the other Apostles, as well as Jesus himself, have a very strong admonition toward anyone who may teach a different Christ than that which was already given for them by Jesus. They say anyone doing so shall be accursed. Obviously they would be speaking of a false prophet as well if one claims to be a prophet and teaches a different Christ than they did. You began teaching a different Christ than what Paul or the other apostles (or Jesus) spoke of in the Bible by saying that Jesus had a beginning through Mary and no beginning before that. You were able to explain it away by saying that God is giving new truth. I ask you - How would God give new truth about His Son when He directed His Apostles and His Son Himself to say that anyone teaching a different Christ is not true!!!??? Does this mean then that Paul was a false teacher? Or does it mean that Jesus could be a false teacher? Or is God Himself incorrect in His own thinking? Or does this mean as it is stated by Jesus and the Apostles that ANYONE who teaches differently than what is already taught in the Bible (specifically about Jesus since God gave and kept His truths about His Son fully in tact) is wrong? This question is rhetorical, by the way.
I was so troubled by all of this and after long deliberation I realized I had little reason to be searching for an answer as I had the answer all along. I was just scared to admit that I also had been so wrong by believing you for all of this time. I know that God says if a prophesy does not come true in the time it is said to be (when spoken in God's name) the prophet is not a prophet of God and did speak presumptuously. You contradicted God Himself when you said in your sermon that you did not speak presumptuously and need not repent. Mr. Weinland, with what else is said in those scriptures, I would not want your fate! May God have mercy on your soul!
Obviously, from what is said in this letter, I MUST remove myself from YOUR organization as it is not God's. It is God and His teachings I must seek. Please make no generic comments about how much pity you feel for those who go out and think they will find truth in the world after they had the truth, on my behalf. Spare it because the truth is what I already have with what I now practice - it just cannot be with you or any of the scattered churches as far as I know - or with traditional Christianity - or Judaism - or Islam - or any belief in this world. It is with God. It will be with God until He (if He does) directs me elsewhere. I will no longer search for religion from this point. I will merely pray and ask for guidance and help and lay my burdens upon my Creator.
Goodbye,
[Washtay]
After further consideration, Washtay wrote:
Mr. Weinland,
I am at a more even keel at this point since I have rid myself of that initial anger I had when I wrote you last. I do absolutely apologize for how I wrote the last two times. I know it was uncalled for and immature.
In response to your letter here (which played a part in making me angry to begin with) I do actually get that you did give some answers in your sermons. I have always been the one to help the others in my area to remember what details as far as dates, facts, etc. were in certain sermons since I was the young one who could remember. I am not saying that in a haughty way - it is just how it is. I knew quite well which of the questions I asked had already been answered in sermons but like a good lawyer; when presenting an argument you never ask a question you do not already know the answer to.
On that topic, you never did answer this question: How can a prophet (let alone one of the two witnesses of God) give a prophesy and go on to [promise to] admit to being a false prophet if said things do not pan out at a very specific date and then go back on that word?
I do not expect to get an answer to this question after the reply I gave before. I just wanted to make it clear that you indeed had not actually answered the questions I had but continued to patronize me and revert to that age-old comment of understanding my spirit - as if I was possessed. That type of patronizing only fuels fires[,] just for your future knowledge. Counseling people is not your strong point so I hope you take that to heart as it is intended in a very constructive way.
[Washtay]
Weinland was not impressed. He responded:
Hello [Washtay],
As per your last few e-mails, you are wrong again! If you do not understand that everything has changed due to the difference in eight months that God has revealed in the 50th Truth, then I cannot give this to you, as this understanding must come from God. You are critical, judgmental, and very far from God spiritually. You seem to have a high estimation of your spiritual insight and knowledge, but your past e-mails have made it clear that you very far from the trunk of the tree. [ So much wrong here. God did not reveal the "50th Truth", it's a total fabrication of Ron. Yes, in Ron's eyes you are far from God (Ron) spiritually. Ron is the one who overestimates his spiritual position.]
Again, you are a disfellowshipped member and you have no part with us at this time (unless you come to complete repentance). If you do repent, you can contact us via e-mail, but from this point forward we are cutting off all communication with you unless and until you do repent. [Got to cut Washtay off before he opens someone else's eyes.]
Sincerely,
Ronald Weinland
In last Saturday's sermon, Ron mentioned someone "stirred up" in an email conversation. According to him, he knew the spirit behind the letter. And the response to Ron's first letter was a "little bit worse", but the third letter was "totally off the wall". Ron has low standards for "totally off the wall", I guess any criticism qualifies. In the sermon, he repeated the blame game, that it's sin in your life that will separate you from Ron.
Mr. Weinland,
I got the message in the announcements portion of the sermon yesterday. I understand that it is always considered a bad thing for the congregation to question things when they are not perceived as correct. I also do not like it when my children question the authority my wife and I have in our household and I admonish them to follow first and then the answer most often will be presented to them. Often, simply doing the task told to do will provide the answer of, why do I need to do this? It is so often that people are impatient for answers to things for which they simply need to wait, listen, and allow time for the reason to be presented.
With this said, I would totally understand you’re upset if this is what I had done. However, it is not. I had never questioned anything previously and never would question what I am told to do/follow by God. I do not presume to know what God knows or to know better than He. I was not questioning His truths. I was actually going by His own word in the Bible where He gives an outline as to how we know whether a prophecy comes from Him or it doesn't.
The timeline change I was not okay with at first but I did not want to question that which God had established, therefore, I continued on with what we believe. Then when the seventh seal was "opened" (November 14th) and what you wrote in the book was not what was reality in the world, I wondered silently. When the elections took place I twitched nervously and hoped for something to take place which would prevent the day of the inauguration. When the inauguration took place, I truly had(have) a problem.
Of course, you know what scriptures I am referring to in this. They are in Deuteronomy and in Matthew. I think it is not right for you to talk about removing me from fellowship just because I state a place in the Bible that shows there are discrepancies with that which you have stated. I think, instead, you could address those issues as they are issues of great importance. I believed that God could (possibly/maybe, again I can never know with certainty what is in God's mind except for that which He states in His word) allow you to have the wrong timing as a way of cleansing the fellowship of those who are in with false intentions. From what God states in His word, I cannot make myself convinced that He would allow you to state on national/international radio right after announcing yourself to be a prophet that there would be no new president take office in 2009 because the country would be "down the tubes by that time" if it was not going to come to be. That would be God setting His own prophet up for a fall. According to His own word, He does not allow that. In fact, never before have any of the prophets of God had that happen in Bible record.
I feel that a person must bring to the table any issues they have problems with when their problems are scripturally based and not based on their own thinking. My problem here is scripturally based - it is according to God's word. To try and remove me from fellowship when I bring this type of issue up would be a public declaration on your part that you know there are problems with your own words.
As I stated to you previously, I am in a time of prayer and am working on allowing God's answers in my mind rather than my own thinking.
Sincerely,
[Washtay]
Washtay has a follow-on message to those still in COG-PKG.
To all those who heard Ron's sermon on 1-31-09. Do you realize how he did not mention my name or even say that this person he is speaking of is, in fact, disfellowshipped? This is because he knows I have a power over him and can prove his falsehood!!! He knows this and is a little fearful. I want this message to get out as much as possible before the next Sabbath service so that out of all that hear him, some will have heard the truth about him and shrug him off!!!
Washtay has revealed himself as "Mike A" in a comment to the previous post in this series. That should identify him to COG-PKG members in his local area. Mike, thanks for sharing your story. I hope your message will get through to others still trapped by the false prophet's lies. But in reading through your emails here, your journey did not happen overnight. Hopefully more will have their eyes opened so that they can see past Ron's deception but it will take awhile. As for yourself, continue to question. Question everything.
Washtay responds to Ron's suspension notice. As before, emails are in italics along with [my comments]
Mr. Weinland,
As I said to you a couple of times, I have been doing considerable thinking and praying over this matter. This has been spiritual torment for me since I felt that all I had believed in just fell to my feet and I was left to sort out the shards of broken me.
I know that not all of what I believe is from you, THANK GOD. My wife asked me about the Sabbath. This, in her mind, is the main staple of my faith (and it is but she doesn't realize the importance of it or the equal importance of the Holy Days or clean and unclean meats) and so she asked me if I would still not work on Friday nights and Saturdays. Obviously she is eager for me to be able to make more money again. Nonetheless, right away I told her that the Sabbath and the Holy Days and clean and unclean meats are something I WILL NOT give up. I will hold to that as a truth from God and allow Him to guide me as He will. I told her that I did not get that truth from you but from God. I am thankful for those truths and will always owe all I have in life (and life itself) to my awesome Creator. You asked me if my calling was from God and to the true church (not in so many words) or not.
To answer this is not as simple as one may expect. Yes, I do believe that it was God who called me. Yes, I believe that He answered those many, many prayers I had when I asked him where to go, how to worship Him. I do not just believe, I know He did. The difficult part of the answer lies in not whether or not He called me but why and to whom? Upon reading a scripture in 1 Kings I began to think it may be possible in God's ultimate plan to test someone who comes to Him with pleas to determine whether or not that said person will follow Him (their God) or a person (a mere man).
1 Kings 22:19-23 depicts a point in time where God actually used a false prophet to do His work. He not only USED a false prophet but He allowed them to be MADE into false prophets by lying spirits(undoubtedly this was Lucifer).
Paul and the other Apostles, as well as Jesus himself, have a very strong admonition toward anyone who may teach a different Christ than that which was already given for them by Jesus. They say anyone doing so shall be accursed. Obviously they would be speaking of a false prophet as well if one claims to be a prophet and teaches a different Christ than they did. You began teaching a different Christ than what Paul or the other apostles (or Jesus) spoke of in the Bible by saying that Jesus had a beginning through Mary and no beginning before that. You were able to explain it away by saying that God is giving new truth. I ask you - How would God give new truth about His Son when He directed His Apostles and His Son Himself to say that anyone teaching a different Christ is not true!!!??? Does this mean then that Paul was a false teacher? Or does it mean that Jesus could be a false teacher? Or is God Himself incorrect in His own thinking? Or does this mean as it is stated by Jesus and the Apostles that ANYONE who teaches differently than what is already taught in the Bible (specifically about Jesus since God gave and kept His truths about His Son fully in tact) is wrong? This question is rhetorical, by the way.
I was so troubled by all of this and after long deliberation I realized I had little reason to be searching for an answer as I had the answer all along. I was just scared to admit that I also had been so wrong by believing you for all of this time. I know that God says if a prophesy does not come true in the time it is said to be (when spoken in God's name) the prophet is not a prophet of God and did speak presumptuously. You contradicted God Himself when you said in your sermon that you did not speak presumptuously and need not repent. Mr. Weinland, with what else is said in those scriptures, I would not want your fate! May God have mercy on your soul!
Obviously, from what is said in this letter, I MUST remove myself from YOUR organization as it is not God's. It is God and His teachings I must seek. Please make no generic comments about how much pity you feel for those who go out and think they will find truth in the world after they had the truth, on my behalf. Spare it because the truth is what I already have with what I now practice - it just cannot be with you or any of the scattered churches as far as I know - or with traditional Christianity - or Judaism - or Islam - or any belief in this world. It is with God. It will be with God until He (if He does) directs me elsewhere. I will no longer search for religion from this point. I will merely pray and ask for guidance and help and lay my burdens upon my Creator.
Goodbye,
[Washtay]
After further consideration, Washtay wrote:
Mr. Weinland,
I am at a more even keel at this point since I have rid myself of that initial anger I had when I wrote you last. I do absolutely apologize for how I wrote the last two times. I know it was uncalled for and immature.
In response to your letter here (which played a part in making me angry to begin with) I do actually get that you did give some answers in your sermons. I have always been the one to help the others in my area to remember what details as far as dates, facts, etc. were in certain sermons since I was the young one who could remember. I am not saying that in a haughty way - it is just how it is. I knew quite well which of the questions I asked had already been answered in sermons but like a good lawyer; when presenting an argument you never ask a question you do not already know the answer to.
On that topic, you never did answer this question: How can a prophet (let alone one of the two witnesses of God) give a prophesy and go on to [promise to] admit to being a false prophet if said things do not pan out at a very specific date and then go back on that word?
I do not expect to get an answer to this question after the reply I gave before. I just wanted to make it clear that you indeed had not actually answered the questions I had but continued to patronize me and revert to that age-old comment of understanding my spirit - as if I was possessed. That type of patronizing only fuels fires[,] just for your future knowledge. Counseling people is not your strong point so I hope you take that to heart as it is intended in a very constructive way.
[Washtay]
Weinland was not impressed. He responded:
Hello [Washtay],
As per your last few e-mails, you are wrong again! If you do not understand that everything has changed due to the difference in eight months that God has revealed in the 50th Truth, then I cannot give this to you, as this understanding must come from God. You are critical, judgmental, and very far from God spiritually. You seem to have a high estimation of your spiritual insight and knowledge, but your past e-mails have made it clear that you very far from the trunk of the tree. [ So much wrong here. God did not reveal the "50th Truth", it's a total fabrication of Ron. Yes, in Ron's eyes you are far from God (Ron) spiritually. Ron is the one who overestimates his spiritual position.]
Again, you are a disfellowshipped member and you have no part with us at this time (unless you come to complete repentance). If you do repent, you can contact us via e-mail, but from this point forward we are cutting off all communication with you unless and until you do repent. [Got to cut Washtay off before he opens someone else's eyes.]
Sincerely,
Ronald Weinland
In last Saturday's sermon, Ron mentioned someone "stirred up" in an email conversation. According to him, he knew the spirit behind the letter. And the response to Ron's first letter was a "little bit worse", but the third letter was "totally off the wall". Ron has low standards for "totally off the wall", I guess any criticism qualifies. In the sermon, he repeated the blame game, that it's sin in your life that will separate you from Ron.
Mr. Weinland,
I got the message in the announcements portion of the sermon yesterday. I understand that it is always considered a bad thing for the congregation to question things when they are not perceived as correct. I also do not like it when my children question the authority my wife and I have in our household and I admonish them to follow first and then the answer most often will be presented to them. Often, simply doing the task told to do will provide the answer of, why do I need to do this? It is so often that people are impatient for answers to things for which they simply need to wait, listen, and allow time for the reason to be presented.
With this said, I would totally understand you’re upset if this is what I had done. However, it is not. I had never questioned anything previously and never would question what I am told to do/follow by God. I do not presume to know what God knows or to know better than He. I was not questioning His truths. I was actually going by His own word in the Bible where He gives an outline as to how we know whether a prophecy comes from Him or it doesn't.
The timeline change I was not okay with at first but I did not want to question that which God had established, therefore, I continued on with what we believe. Then when the seventh seal was "opened" (November 14th) and what you wrote in the book was not what was reality in the world, I wondered silently. When the elections took place I twitched nervously and hoped for something to take place which would prevent the day of the inauguration. When the inauguration took place, I truly had(have) a problem.
Of course, you know what scriptures I am referring to in this. They are in Deuteronomy and in Matthew. I think it is not right for you to talk about removing me from fellowship just because I state a place in the Bible that shows there are discrepancies with that which you have stated. I think, instead, you could address those issues as they are issues of great importance. I believed that God could (possibly/maybe, again I can never know with certainty what is in God's mind except for that which He states in His word) allow you to have the wrong timing as a way of cleansing the fellowship of those who are in with false intentions. From what God states in His word, I cannot make myself convinced that He would allow you to state on national/international radio right after announcing yourself to be a prophet that there would be no new president take office in 2009 because the country would be "down the tubes by that time" if it was not going to come to be. That would be God setting His own prophet up for a fall. According to His own word, He does not allow that. In fact, never before have any of the prophets of God had that happen in Bible record.
I feel that a person must bring to the table any issues they have problems with when their problems are scripturally based and not based on their own thinking. My problem here is scripturally based - it is according to God's word. To try and remove me from fellowship when I bring this type of issue up would be a public declaration on your part that you know there are problems with your own words.
As I stated to you previously, I am in a time of prayer and am working on allowing God's answers in my mind rather than my own thinking.
Sincerely,
[Washtay]
Washtay has a follow-on message to those still in COG-PKG.
To all those who heard Ron's sermon on 1-31-09. Do you realize how he did not mention my name or even say that this person he is speaking of is, in fact, disfellowshipped? This is because he knows I have a power over him and can prove his falsehood!!! He knows this and is a little fearful. I want this message to get out as much as possible before the next Sabbath service so that out of all that hear him, some will have heard the truth about him and shrug him off!!!
Washtay has revealed himself as "Mike A" in a comment to the previous post in this series. That should identify him to COG-PKG members in his local area. Mike, thanks for sharing your story. I hope your message will get through to others still trapped by the false prophet's lies. But in reading through your emails here, your journey did not happen overnight. Hopefully more will have their eyes opened so that they can see past Ron's deception but it will take awhile. As for yourself, continue to question. Question everything.
Thursday, February 5, 2009
Round 2, Weinland Vs Washtay
The exchange between Washtay and Weinland continues from my last post. Again, quotes are in italics with [my comments].
Washtay replies to Weinland's tap dance given in my last post:
Mr. Weinland,
What you said is true as far as me not having been open at all times. I was open as much as I needed to be, however. I have and am dealing with issues in my life and in my personality that are not desirable in the least. My human nature is a horrible thing and I do not like it. It is ever present and I am always trying to shun it from myself.
However, that is not the topic that I brought to you. I feel that you sidestepped the question I asked you. I asked you how you would deal with the interviewers demanding an answer to the fact that we have a president when you said we would not? Would you change the subject? Would you avoid the subject? Or would you justify it in some manner?
Furthermore, how would you approach the question (if raised by anyone) that page 115 in the 2008 book states that before the opening of the seventh seal, the seven thunders (indicating all of them) will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them should roar loudly to anyone willing to listen? I do realize that this is limited to those who can hear/see by God's Spirit. What I do not understand is that since the seventh seal is opened and you mentioned just a short time back that we are only now about to enter into the 5th trumpet, how is it that the seven thunders are roaring loudly? Not all of them have even started; though the seventh seal has opened.
[I think Washtay meant "5th Thunder" instead of "5th Trumpet". With all the various "Sevens", it can be confusing and I've heard Ron misstate a "Seven" as well.
Washtay would be pointing out that the 5th Thunder has not even begun to sound, even though the 7th Seal has opened, which contradicts Weinland's book which says that all 7 Thunders would be sounding loudly before the 7th Seal opened. And not one at a time in sequence as Weinland has explained.]
You are right in saying that I have great conflict. You were incorrect in saying that only I can resolve this. One thing I appreciate is the analogy of being before the Nile. I am now, like never before, standing before the Nile with no way but across and only God can get me through this conflict. I hope to come out of this conflict stronger and with a good report of God's work in me.
Sincerely,
[Washtay]
Good for you, Washtay. Not buying the same old blather.
Weinland responds:
Hello [Washtay],
You don't seem to get what I am telling you and I am not surprised. You are going to great lengths to justify yourself and that is not necessary. [Wait a minute!!! Washtay's not the one going to great lengths to justify himself -- you are. He's just asking an uncomfortable question.] You are fully wrong when you think that my correction to you has anything to do with being upset at you for questioning anything. Questions are fine, but I have already answered this in the past, as I told you. If you are not able to "hear" then I cannot help you. [Ron can't "help" those who can no longer swallow his lame excuses for his failures.]
As I have already said, I have already given answers in the sermons and announcements in the past. If you do not understand what is being said and you don't "get it" then it is because of that which is spiritual in your life (the lack of it). You need to look inward and repent of what ever sins you have been holding onto and not fully addressing in your life. This is keeping you from grasping what others so clearly see, but you do not. [Weinland repeats his "blame the member" tactic.]
That which happens in cases like yours is that you begin to interpret God's word on your own and believe you are right in what you are saying, yet you are fully wrong. I can not give this to you by any kind of statements that I haven't made already. [Shame on you Washtay. Only Weinland is qualified to interpret God's word.]
Because of my time being such as it is this week (and last) I simply do not have the time at the moment to spend more time with you on this matter, and I cannot give this to you spiritually anyway, it is between you and God. It is not between you and me. If you cannot receive what is stated in sermons and announcements (which has to do with God leading and teaching us and YOU) then I cannot give to you what God has already given to the Church. If you want to rely upon your own interpretations, that is your choice. If you want to be a student before God and take these things to Him, with repentance in your life for what you are doing, then perhaps you will come to clearly "SEE" what others see. [Washtay, are you going to quit thinking for yourself or not?]
Simply put for now, because of your continuation in all this I am asking you to remove yourself from the fellowship for now and keep this upcoming Sabbath on your own. [Time to protect the remaining sheep.] After the fast, I will contact you by phone and discuss all this with you. You can send me your phone number and the best times to reach you, if indeed you do want to be in fellowship with the Church, as you are not to return until I have counseled you on the matter. [Washtay is not disfellowshipped at this point, just suspended temporarily.]
Sincerely,
Ronald Weinland
The exchange concludes in the following post.
Washtay replies to Weinland's tap dance given in my last post:
Mr. Weinland,
What you said is true as far as me not having been open at all times. I was open as much as I needed to be, however. I have and am dealing with issues in my life and in my personality that are not desirable in the least. My human nature is a horrible thing and I do not like it. It is ever present and I am always trying to shun it from myself.
However, that is not the topic that I brought to you. I feel that you sidestepped the question I asked you. I asked you how you would deal with the interviewers demanding an answer to the fact that we have a president when you said we would not? Would you change the subject? Would you avoid the subject? Or would you justify it in some manner?
Furthermore, how would you approach the question (if raised by anyone) that page 115 in the 2008 book states that before the opening of the seventh seal, the seven thunders (indicating all of them) will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them should roar loudly to anyone willing to listen? I do realize that this is limited to those who can hear/see by God's Spirit. What I do not understand is that since the seventh seal is opened and you mentioned just a short time back that we are only now about to enter into the 5th trumpet, how is it that the seven thunders are roaring loudly? Not all of them have even started; though the seventh seal has opened.
[I think Washtay meant "5th Thunder" instead of "5th Trumpet". With all the various "Sevens", it can be confusing and I've heard Ron misstate a "Seven" as well.
Washtay would be pointing out that the 5th Thunder has not even begun to sound, even though the 7th Seal has opened, which contradicts Weinland's book which says that all 7 Thunders would be sounding loudly before the 7th Seal opened. And not one at a time in sequence as Weinland has explained.]
You are right in saying that I have great conflict. You were incorrect in saying that only I can resolve this. One thing I appreciate is the analogy of being before the Nile. I am now, like never before, standing before the Nile with no way but across and only God can get me through this conflict. I hope to come out of this conflict stronger and with a good report of God's work in me.
Sincerely,
[Washtay]
Good for you, Washtay. Not buying the same old blather.
Weinland responds:
Hello [Washtay],
You don't seem to get what I am telling you and I am not surprised. You are going to great lengths to justify yourself and that is not necessary. [Wait a minute!!! Washtay's not the one going to great lengths to justify himself -- you are. He's just asking an uncomfortable question.] You are fully wrong when you think that my correction to you has anything to do with being upset at you for questioning anything. Questions are fine, but I have already answered this in the past, as I told you. If you are not able to "hear" then I cannot help you. [Ron can't "help" those who can no longer swallow his lame excuses for his failures.]
As I have already said, I have already given answers in the sermons and announcements in the past. If you do not understand what is being said and you don't "get it" then it is because of that which is spiritual in your life (the lack of it). You need to look inward and repent of what ever sins you have been holding onto and not fully addressing in your life. This is keeping you from grasping what others so clearly see, but you do not. [Weinland repeats his "blame the member" tactic.]
That which happens in cases like yours is that you begin to interpret God's word on your own and believe you are right in what you are saying, yet you are fully wrong. I can not give this to you by any kind of statements that I haven't made already. [Shame on you Washtay. Only Weinland is qualified to interpret God's word.]
Because of my time being such as it is this week (and last) I simply do not have the time at the moment to spend more time with you on this matter, and I cannot give this to you spiritually anyway, it is between you and God. It is not between you and me. If you cannot receive what is stated in sermons and announcements (which has to do with God leading and teaching us and YOU) then I cannot give to you what God has already given to the Church. If you want to rely upon your own interpretations, that is your choice. If you want to be a student before God and take these things to Him, with repentance in your life for what you are doing, then perhaps you will come to clearly "SEE" what others see. [Washtay, are you going to quit thinking for yourself or not?]
Simply put for now, because of your continuation in all this I am asking you to remove yourself from the fellowship for now and keep this upcoming Sabbath on your own. [Time to protect the remaining sheep.] After the fast, I will contact you by phone and discuss all this with you. You can send me your phone number and the best times to reach you, if indeed you do want to be in fellowship with the Church, as you are not to return until I have counseled you on the matter. [Washtay is not disfellowshipped at this point, just suspended temporarily.]
Sincerely,
Ronald Weinland
The exchange concludes in the following post.
Wednesday, February 4, 2009
Weinland Tends the Flock
Recent commenter "Washtay" has shared with me the interaction he's had with False Prophet Ronald Weinland. Initially, he asked Ron what he would say to a radio interviewer asking about the failure of his prophecy regarding no inauguration of a president last month. Here is Ron's response to Washtay [with my comments/edits].
Hello [Washtay],
Indeed I can appreciate your frustration, but I cannot help you with the confusion you are experiencing. [Of course you can't help, Ron -- you're the cause of the confusion.] It is a spiritual matter. [Yes Ron, we know. Everything's "spiritual".] These things have been addressed in sermons. The 50th Truth did change the timing of everything and God allowed it to be so. [50th Truth? Hah! You made it up based on counts between different dates in desperation when your first timeline failed.] Everything that was stated in interviews was based on lack of that truth. [No, your statements were based on your fantasies.] If you cannot accept that then there is nothing I can do to help you. It is frustrating to some degree, but new truth is always exciting as well, and it also reveals errors in past understanding. [Got that backwards, Ron. First we had the error revealed, then the "truth" was rolled out.] When God reveals new truth to us, it always opens up more doors of greater understanding and excitement for His plan and purpose that is being worked out. [ "His" plan? No, your plan which you make up as you go along. What's your current plan "B"?]
Not knowing the 50th Truth and all that it changed in no way affects my job as a prophet or takes away from that job in any manner. [I agree with that. Can't take away or affect something that doesn't exist. Ron, you were never commissioned as a prophet, except by yourself.] It is a matter of God's own choosing as to when He reveals truth and what he allows us to believe and even live incorrectly (ie Pentecost being observed for decades on a Monday rather than Sunday).[No, not God's choosing. A man's. First it was HWA, now it's REW.]
I cannot give to you what only God can give because your inability to "see" and understand what I have given in sermons over the past several months is a spiritual matter and can only be revealed and seen spiritually. [Inability to see? Yes, in the sense that if you clean your glasses you won't be seeing dirt instead of your surroundings.] If these things you mention trouble you and you believe that I am not God's true prophet, then you really have no other choice before God (if you are going to be true to Him for what you believe) but to remove yourself from fellowship. [Actually, I agree (mostly).] How can you listen to a false prophet teach you each Sabbath and still be true to God? [Good question.] You ask me how I can justify comments made in the past, especially on national radio. Candidly, I am not justify[ing] anything I have stated incorrectly, but I have delivered to all the truth in the matter and explained fully "why" these changes have occurred. [For sure you haven't justified anything to a radio host -- you simply haven't returned as you promised them. What you have delivered is a fresh crock of garbage to replace the garbage that had rotted and started to stink (worse).]
You mentioned how you came to know the truth. Was it from and was it through God's true Church and His true ministry or wasn't it? Only you can answer that for yourself. [It's my observation that the best lies rest on a solid foundation of truth.] Indeed I do feel for those who are having battles, but that also is part of God's design in our lives as true character and true humility do not come without such fiery trials that test us. [Now don't be blaming this conflict on God. It's all on you, Ron.]
It has always, and I repeat, ALWAYS been my experience as a minister that if individuals are not able to "hear" God then it is the result of some sin in their life that is not being fully repented of and of course that becomes hypocrisy, deeper pride, and living in a way that is against God's spirit and against Christ. I know and you know that you have not been open with me concerning some of this sin that is in your life. Perhaps rather than focusing on me and your ideas that I am "justifying" myself, maybe you should instead be looking inward. [So here we have it. One of Weinland's favorite techniques -- blame the member. Since we're all human and have failings, then any questioning of Ron is the result of some "sin" that the member has. Washtay, wise choice if you haven't been open with this exploiter.]
You do have great conflict that you and only you can resolve. It is a spiritual matter and only you can work this out between you and God. [Yes, Washtay does have a conflict. But it's not between him and God. It's between him and the delusions that you've force-fed him.]
Most sincerely [ Sincerely, huh?],
Ronald Weinland
Members are blamed when they fail to "see" Ron's fantasies as "truth". And as a commenter on another post pointed out, they've been set up to be blamed when the "thunders" don't materialize. If only they'd prayed harder.
Sunday, February 1, 2009
Pray For Death
False Prophet Ronald Weinland delivered yesterday's sermon from Cincinnati. This is the weekend of the two-day fast he called earlier in the month. Weinland acknowledged that such a fast is unprecedented in CoG history, both in recent memory and probably for all 7 eras. While one-day fasts (no food or water) have been common in WCG and the various splinters, both on the annual Day of Atonement and other occasions called by a Herblet, a two-day fast (no food or water) is breaking new ground. Despite Weinland's cautions that certain people with health problems were not to attempt it, I fear that some may suffer permanently. Hopefully they will recognize when distress sets in and end their fast by drinking some water.
From comments made by Weinland and from comments by others on this blog and another forum, it appears that there is at least some small movement by members away from Weinland. One who followed Weinland into the second timeline and was willing to accept an 8-month delay for prophecies in "2008 God's Final Witness" drew the line at Weinland's attempt to move out expectations for the Great Tribulation to 2 years. It seems that some are kept in the church by the fear of losing contact with friends and family members.
When discussing his email exchange with a departing member, Weinland sequed into a discussion of people who criticized Herbert Armstrong for his extravagances, such as silver ice buckets. His response: "Armstrong talked quality". Weinland continued on to mention "the stupid thing of the house that's out there on the Internet. $381,000. Whoop-de-doo". This is in reference to other posts on this blog exposing Ron's lifestyle which is decidedly above average. Ron went on to claim that he might be criticized for living somewhere less expensive, and he could have had a more expensive home, and that while everything you have is God's, he only wants 10%. However Ron wants even more, in the past demanding 3/4 of the members' second tithe and whatever nest eggs they have. I don't doubt that he could have afforded an even more expensive home.
Weinland went on to explain the purpose of the fast. He read the following from pages 85-86 of "2008 God's Final Witness".
God wanted the Seven Thunders to remain sealed until this very time as well.
God did all this as part of a process through which He would reveal who one of His end-time witnesses was, the one through whom He would fully reveal all that John had written in the Book of Revelation concerning this end-time. God gave specific end time prophecies to John in a vision. John was to write about what he saw, but most of what he wrote was to remain sealed. God predetermined to reveal the meaning and timing of these major prophetic events through His end-time prophet.
God has a twofold purpose for doing this. First, God is going to make a clear distinction, in His scattered Church, between who His true minister is, through whom He is working, and all other ministers with whom He is not working. This will serve as one final witness to the Church before the devastation of the great tribulation strikes the whole world at the opening of the Seventh Seal.
Ron had a convoluted explanation as to why the last sentence doesn't mean what it says. He did not read the next paragraph or the one after that which reads:
The timing for the Seven Thunders is during the period of the Sixth Seal.
Nor did he read the chapter title which reads:
The Seven Thunders of the 6th Seal
Ron then proceeded for the umpteenth time to summarize the Seven Thunders. The members are to pray for them to get stronger so more will be humbled. They are to pray that the thunders become more intense so that more will be humbled and brought to repentance so that they can be saved when the Great Tribulation finally, finally gets here. Pray for the deaths of Rod Meredith and the other 4 specific ministers so that Ron's prophecy will appear to have been fulfilled. Perhaps even more than a tithe of all the thirds, not just a tithe of one of the thirds, can be saved.
Perhaps some will pray for my death. After all, it's now over 6 weeks since Weinland cursed me to die speedily from the inside. You'd think if it was going to take this long, it would have happened on the 40th day, since 40 is the number of judgment. But we're past that hurdle. Oh well, we've still got the 40-weeks hurdle to get past yet -- but so much for "speedily".
From comments made by Weinland and from comments by others on this blog and another forum, it appears that there is at least some small movement by members away from Weinland. One who followed Weinland into the second timeline and was willing to accept an 8-month delay for prophecies in "2008 God's Final Witness" drew the line at Weinland's attempt to move out expectations for the Great Tribulation to 2 years. It seems that some are kept in the church by the fear of losing contact with friends and family members.
When discussing his email exchange with a departing member, Weinland sequed into a discussion of people who criticized Herbert Armstrong for his extravagances, such as silver ice buckets. His response: "Armstrong talked quality". Weinland continued on to mention "the stupid thing of the house that's out there on the Internet. $381,000. Whoop-de-doo". This is in reference to other posts on this blog exposing Ron's lifestyle which is decidedly above average. Ron went on to claim that he might be criticized for living somewhere less expensive, and he could have had a more expensive home, and that while everything you have is God's, he only wants 10%. However Ron wants even more, in the past demanding 3/4 of the members' second tithe and whatever nest eggs they have. I don't doubt that he could have afforded an even more expensive home.
Weinland went on to explain the purpose of the fast. He read the following from pages 85-86 of "2008 God's Final Witness".
God wanted the Seven Thunders to remain sealed until this very time as well.
God did all this as part of a process through which He would reveal who one of His end-time witnesses was, the one through whom He would fully reveal all that John had written in the Book of Revelation concerning this end-time. God gave specific end time prophecies to John in a vision. John was to write about what he saw, but most of what he wrote was to remain sealed. God predetermined to reveal the meaning and timing of these major prophetic events through His end-time prophet.
God has a twofold purpose for doing this. First, God is going to make a clear distinction, in His scattered Church, between who His true minister is, through whom He is working, and all other ministers with whom He is not working. This will serve as one final witness to the Church before the devastation of the great tribulation strikes the whole world at the opening of the Seventh Seal.
Ron had a convoluted explanation as to why the last sentence doesn't mean what it says. He did not read the next paragraph or the one after that which reads:
The timing for the Seven Thunders is during the period of the Sixth Seal.
Nor did he read the chapter title which reads:
The Seven Thunders of the 6th Seal
Ron then proceeded for the umpteenth time to summarize the Seven Thunders. The members are to pray for them to get stronger so more will be humbled. They are to pray that the thunders become more intense so that more will be humbled and brought to repentance so that they can be saved when the Great Tribulation finally, finally gets here. Pray for the deaths of Rod Meredith and the other 4 specific ministers so that Ron's prophecy will appear to have been fulfilled. Perhaps even more than a tithe of all the thirds, not just a tithe of one of the thirds, can be saved.
Perhaps some will pray for my death. After all, it's now over 6 weeks since Weinland cursed me to die speedily from the inside. You'd think if it was going to take this long, it would have happened on the 40th day, since 40 is the number of judgment. But we're past that hurdle. Oh well, we've still got the 40-weeks hurdle to get past yet -- but so much for "speedily".
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