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This Blogspot remains as an archive covering the period of April, 2008 through early July, 2009.

Friday, June 19, 2009

It's About Time

False Prophet Ronald Weinland finally put up the post on his blog he promised last Saturday. Here are a few low lights from it:

That destruction is coming, and it will be coming all too soon. It doesn’t need to be rushed!

We can be ever so thankful that the Second Trumpet has not yet sounded and that it may now be withheld even longer.

And the biggy:

For the final sermon on the Last Great Day of the Feast, it is planned that a sermon will be given on the subject of “time, times, and half a time.” God is beginning to give a clearer understanding of what He is doing concerning a “new” significance this expression has for this end-time. Due to the special fast held by God’s Church in January this year, some prophetic events have been shifted within the framework of the fulfillment of “time, times, and half a time.”

My read on this is that Weinland is priming his flock, not quite for timeline #3, but an extensive revision of timeline #2. The tribulation will not be great for quite awhile yet.

Then the Spokesman Witness discussed two interviews he'd had last week with a couple of Toronto radio stations:

Rather than being treated with attitudes that can be challenging, confrontational, disbelieving, irreverent, and at times condescending, there indeed seems to be a shift beginning to take place in which the message (and messenger) are beginning to be treated with greater respect.

Do you think maybe these were promotional events for ideaCity? Would they want to get a presenter all upset before hand? He then goes on to compare himself to his own spiritual idol:

It will be interesting to see what door or doors God opens as a result of this unique speaking invitation in Toronto. I am reminded of the kinds of invitations Mr. Armstrong received that led to even greater opportunities to preach the gospel (as this was his commission).

Then this gem:

Beginning in 2009, the United States placed a new government in motion that no longer has any favor and will no longer receive any help from God.

Just as a reminder the "new government" that he's talking about is one that wasn't supposed to exist at all, as he prophesied that no new president would take office this year. Weinland winds up his post by hammering on the only one of the thunders that seems to be sounding, the economy.

He promises more on the sequence of events in his sermon tomorrow at 3:30 Eastern time (or later). Ronnie, do you also have "new" significance on the timing as to when I'm to die speedily? After all it's almost 26 weeks since you laid the curse on me.

44 comments:

Dill Weed said...

Interesting. Ron's still committed to the 3 1/2 prophecy he made and it's starting date. I don't see a way out for him, unless he is going to redefine a 'time' or the whole 'time, times, and half a time', but that would take him past his End date.

He's going to have to pull a bunny out of his spiritual wizard's hat soon.

Dill Weed

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

Ron will pull out a dead rabbit and his followers will eat it raw.

Weinland Observer said...

Time, times, and half a time is simple to understand.
Time, times, and half a time = tribulation. = 1260 days.
Time = year: 360 days.
Times = 2 years: 720 days.
Half a time = 180 days.
Shift from church fast = shifting time, times, to times, time.
Times = demize of US and other tribes of Israels descendants and humbling process.
Time = European rule.
Lastly as Weinland hinted, half a time = Russia and China retaliation+battle of the two powers on last day.
I know a year isn't 360 days, but if 3-1/2 years is 1260 days in terms of the tribulation, biblically the year here is accounted as 360 days.
P.S. Timeline 3 will not be You may think Ronald Weinland is wrong, but anyone should be able to easily see that he is sincere if nothing else. There are better ways to make money than by proclaiming yourself a profit and giving books away for free.

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

You say that time (360 days) is European rule. What happened to "a year, a month, and a day"?

I don't know whether Weinland is sincere or not, still torn as to whether he's drinking his own Flavor Aid or just handing it out.

Regardless, he's proven himself sincerely wrong.

Weinland Observer said...

Year and a month and a day = the fact that China and Russia are ready for war that much time before the 6th trumpet sounds, before they slay a third of mankind or start to do so by attacking Europe. The US wouldn't have to collapse completely or even collapse for Russia and China to be ready to go to war. Provacation could do it at anytime. Anyway, this is just my oppinion. Maybe it isn't Ron's or God's, but it is the only logical timeline explanation I can think of. Ron's sermon wil probably drop a few hints.

Mark said...

The underpinning of Weinland's prophecy is British Israelism which is a disproven, extra-Biblical, story. It's not in the Bible and is actually, at its core, antithesis to what the Bible teaches. To Ron Weinland, though, it is the key to most everything he teaches. I guarantee you that he has never studied it outside of what his idol Herbert Armstrong taught. It is not his alone, but a core doctrine in the various daughter churches of HWA, of which Ron Weinland is but one of many.
Ron, Ron, Ron, why do you teach lies?

Mark said...

What a hoot! He LEFT and was a coward! He never spoke at ideacity! He could have had a Paulean experience and proclaimed the "unknown God" but he wimped out!!!!
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

And he is supposed to be one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation?! He wimped out! He can't stand persecution! He's a false prophet! He's a wimpy, namby pamby false prophet who couldn't stand up because he was wimpy and insecure.

Come on, is that not enough proof?!

Dill Weed said...

Weinland Observer,

Vague hints would be the safe thing for Ron to do. He hasn't had much luck being specific.

Too bad he has set a snare for himself, one that when sprung will show (again) that he is a false prophet.

Rev 11:3 And I will grant authority to my Two Witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.

BUT, I shall not give them Two Witness powers until AFTER the 5th Trumpet.

Rev 11:5 And if anyone wants to harm them

Heck, most people don't even know about them (much less want to harm them) even according to Ron, and they are 6 months into their ministry, (Maybe, they're just off to a slow start!)

But more importantly check this out:

Rev. 11:6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall DURING the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the Earth with every plague, AS OFTEN AS THEY DESIRE.

Okay, so they'll stop the rain AFTER the 5th Trumpet, but the scripture says they'll have the power to stop the rain DURING THE DAYS OF THEIR PROPHESYING (THAT WOULD BE NOW). This clearly contradicts scripture.

and referring again to the time that they are prophesying...

that THEY CAN STRIKE THE EARTH WITH EVERY PLAGUE (NOT JUST RON'S SERMONS) AS OFTEN AS THEY LIKE. Again, this refers to the period of time of their *yawn* ministry (psst, that's the 1260 days, beginning December 14, 2008.)

With his claims, Ron has set himself up to be proven a false prophet long before 2012.

Weinland Observer, I'm going to assume observer implies some objectivity.

Follow me on my aptly named blog: ronaldweinlandtheprophetwhofailed.blogspot.com

Mike has a link to it, the prophet who failed

You seem to be a believer, maybe you test for accuracy before you believe. That's encouraged btw. I'm not attempting to be an enemy, just a mocker.

This isn't about being 'right,' but is about rightly discerning.

Dill Weed

Mark said...

The previous speaker at IdeaCity was "too sick and too perverted" for him to speak? Really? He's a "witness" from the Book of Revelation and can't muster the courage to speak to some critics?
Bwaaahahahahahahahahaha. This guy has such an inferiority complex and shouldn't be revered as a strong leader of Biblical proportion. Jesus would have never ran away with his tail between his legs like Ron Weinland did!

Run Ronnie Run! Go home! WaaaWaaa! They don't play nice! Who cares! Grow some! Be a man!

Mark said...

Can anything be more clear that Ron Weinland is a false prophet than his refusal to speak at IdeaCity because he was too scared? He needs the comfort of supporters, not stress of standing up for his beliefs to people who don't want to listen. He needs and seeks a comfortable life!
What an absolute and total failure for him to live up to his self-proclaimed title of Prophet and One of the Two Witnesses.
Can his members continue to follow such a WEAK leader?

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

I'll have to listen again. My take was that he spoke for his 20 minutes, and had a few laugh at him -- lucky for them he really doesn't have Witness powers.

I believe that he was offended by listening to another speaker give his post talk interview. But I'm going to listen again to make sure that's correct.

Purple Hymnal said...

"The previous speaker at IdeaCity was "too sick and too perverted" for him to speak?"

Hmm, shouldn't Weinland have been able to rectify that with a simple breathing of fire?

Oh, wait.....

I doubt Weinland chickened out. Matter of fact, I doubt Weinland even intended to speak at all, or expected any different results: After all, Herbie's "gospel to the nations (world leaders)" was really only about the gifts of Steuben crystal and a photo-op.

Weinland probably figured it would get his name out there, and get a few of the richy-riches sucked in, as well as provide some "The Work is being done!/My Great Commission, brethren!" sermon/tithes-begging material to keep the sheeple happy and in line.

Probably the only thing "sick and perverted" about the speaker before Weinland was how frighteningly smart he/she was; that alone, would have put Weinland off from the idea that there were any gullible suckers in the audience.

But, as I say, I believe this was a carefully-orchestrated PR play, and Weinland never intended to speak at all.

Besides which, if I was still living in Toronto, I SO would have been handing out flyers in front of the door.....

Dill Weed said...

If this is correct, God's prophet doesn't seem to have much of a spine.

But, it doesn't jibe with the post on his website - where he ruminates on what further publicity his appearance might bring.

I don't know if he appeared or not. Listening to quality speakers before him could have unnvered him though.

The resolution on this one should be interesting. I have to ask, "Is our leg being pulled?" We'll see. I emailed ideacity and acked if Ron presented.

20 minutes can seem an eternity when your confidence has tanked.

Dill Weed

Mark said...

I must have jumped in just after he talked about his speaking. He was talking about his early departure. My bad. Carry on!

I guess the "sick and perverted" came after Weinland. He sounded so weak and timid about his departure that I thought he hadn't spoken yet. Nonetheless, he certainly doesn't exhibit any of the traits of the two witnesses of Revelation.

I'll wait for your full expose on his experience to find out what happened.

Purple Hymnal said...

WOW.

Bob pulled out all the stops on this one!

(Although I note Thiel did forget to mention the death curse Weinland laid on ol' Spanky, who, as of this writing, is still ticking.)

“As the leader of the Living Church of God, Roderick Meredith is mentioned as one of many ministers who will die as a result of the prophesied Fifth Thunder.” [Ronald Weinland web site "Interview Comments"] (near the bottom of the page)"

The quote's still there, Bob! What are you waiting for?!?!

Mark said...

Again, my apologies. Not to Ron, but to you all here.

Dill Weed said...

I read that this morning, Purple. Bob really took Ron to the wood shed. I was wincing by the end, but enjoying it, too.

Thanks for the clarification Mark, but what were you listening to? There's nothing on Ron's site yet.

That sure would have been good though, don't worry Ron's prophetic delusions are right on schedule to implode anyway,

Dill Weed

Mark said...

I can't stand listening to his sermons because they are filled with lies and drivel, but from Mike's posts he seemed like he was itching to say something profoundly ridiculous, so I hit the "listen now" button.
Just a reminder: he's not worth "listening now" to.

Mark said...

Does anyone else find it creepy that Ron Weinland reads his own blog postings like they were scripture?

saleah said...

I find it very interesting that Ron keeps making 'predictions' about the US economy. Trouble is, as God's Final Witness, it is the TIMING (ie. Ron being entirely correct in the timing) that is key.

Ron continues to be incorrect with his timing.

Here are a few predictions from individuals such as DK Burton, Harry Dent, and also the makers behind the documentary 'The Obama Deception'.

1. The US economy will indeed crash.
2. The US Dollar will cease to exist, and be replaced with another currency - possibly the 'Amero'.
3. The Stock Market will be allowed to go back up to 1998-99 levels, before the real crash starts (in the near future)
4. The Dow will go down to around 3,000 - 3,500.


Ron is not alone with these types of predictions, but some of the abovenamed are being a LOT more specific with their timing, and Ron is not giving any timing at all.

Remember, Rons reasons for writing these books, so when events began to happen EXACTLY as he said they would, people would know who to believe - who to listen to.

Well Ron, NOTHING has happened the way you said it would. NOTHING.

Your desired effect, on knowing who to listen to, has actually worked. We know NOT to listen to you!

People such as Harry Dent state, publically, that the world is about to be plunged into a DEPRESSION.

Ron, MANY, MANY, MANY people are saying the EXACT same things as you in relation to the economy (albeit being a LOT more specific).

Any one reading the news could write the same information as you have stated in your June 20, 2009 post - ANYONE.

Trouble is, is that if people such as Harry Dent and others are correct, RW's followers would think Ron is correct when these things happen.

We'll wait and see.

I'm just wondering what they will say in 2012 when they are looking up into the Sky, awaiting the return of Christ, and he does not arrive. Mmmmmmm, maybe a 'new' understanding about the word 'RETURN'???

Well Ron, you may probably be right about what is going to the US and other nations such as Britain, Australia etc - but you have been WRONG about the timing on a number of occasions now - in addition to the 2 most obvious.

You are not saying ANYTHING in addition to what a whole lot of others are saying.

Kirrily

saleah said...

PS. Ron, you are mean to be a 'Prophet' by the way, so shouldn't you be able to give a few more details, be more specific?

Oh, I guess you are to afraid to now as you have been wrong so many times.

"Soon now", "in the not too distant future" is not good enough.

The Bible tells us how to tell the difference between a true prophet, and a false one.

According to the Bible, you are false.

Instead of admitting you are wrong, you blame those of us who had the courage to leave. Our minds are 'scrambled'.

You are a cruel man.

Those of us who had the courage to leave have been through a lot Ron. I know that you can probably understand that as you went through the same thing when HWA's prophecies did not eventuate.

You always said you never understood why those who left kept listening to your sermons. Well, I have never listened to one from the day I left.

I have found comfort with those who you call 'mockers'. They have shown me more love, support and comfort and a shoulder to cry on than I even experienced whilst being a part of your group.

I do miss Wayne, Chris, Nathan and Sharna - again, something I know you would understand.

I just wish you would see that you obviously are NOT who you say you are.

Do you not realise the damage you are doing?

You stated when the first timeline failed that we needed to have a good, hard, long look at ourselves - how could we 'want' these destructive things to take place? You said we probably felt we looked liked idiots to our loved ones, and friends we had told 'the end was nigh'.

That is true. But what is also true, as that we truly thought that when those things you said would happen, did happen, that our loved ones would finally 'see the truths' that we did. How joyous that would have been.

When things did NOT eventuate they way you said they would (both the first and second timelines) we knew our family and friends would never listen to us again.

Not be interested in the 'truths' of Sabbath, XMas, Commandments etc. THAT IS WHAT HURT (not our pride).

If it was our Pride, we never would have said anything to them in the first place.

You have twisted so many things Ron - you have hurt SO MANY people.

I wonder how many people will not listen when the REAL witnesses turn up - because of YOU.

Kirrily

Weinland Observer said...

Dill Weed,
In response to your message to me.
Weinland Observer implies that I have listened to what Weinland has said and judged accordingly. Times such as the first trumpet being a process of 45 to 90 days convinced me Weinland was false and I was on vacation and not accessing the internet much so when I got back at the end of July I was convinced he was false. However I checked the 50th truth info and it fit in perfectly as 280 days from the day of Christmas to trumpets followed by Pentecost 1335 days later. I was convinced of this. I was also understanding of the fact that the demize of the US by June 21, 2009 could be delayed because of truth 50. The fast had been the last straw though and I then listened to Weinland for entertainment. However I later on thought of the possibility of the fast really being legit as long as no timeline change occurred. Weinland's preddiction of the unemployment rate increasing in the amount of lowering June from that of May also convinced me again of his volidity. As for the scriptures you quoted, recall that Weinland stated in the Dec 21 sermon that the thunders were all increasing in magnitude but that there is a time for each thunder to take presidence over the others and that we are on thunder 4, the economic problems. He also stated in a March sermon that the economy would improve (this can include decreasing in deterieration while detirearatingg.) and that when this period ended the final collapse would take place. In any case, Weinland's volidity aside, what Armstrong has been lead to see and what Weinland continues to believe and teaches has proven to me something I have always known and been thankfull for, that traditional Christianity has never been something I've believed. Unlike Islam and Judiism, it is a religion that has evolved with the varrying times in history to compromise with the customs of various cultures and empires along with pagans to the point where the very oneness of God has been compromised, pagan holidays added, and concepts like Christ ediingg for us to break God's law and being admitted to Heaven simply for believing this and going to Hell for questioning it along with the threeness of God. I used to believe that the Bible was distorted from it's original text but I know see that the message was distorted above all things. As a final statement, neither I, you, or anyone else has to believe Weinland know. If he is a true end time witness as I think he is but have as you have read tested it and refined my oppinion as it has been necessery, all who don't believe God's message from him and repent will simply die and not live on in the new age, being reserected in the Great White Throne where it will be made clear the need to repent after which entrence to God's family by being turned in to immortal spirit beings would be possible. Clearly, you have nothing to worry about for not believing Weinland to be who he says he is in the least. How many of you hear understand this?

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

Weinland Observer, how do you explain away the lack of the 5th thunder. Remember, ALL of them were to be sounding BEFORE the 7th seal opened.

Let's look at the 1st phase of the 5th thunder, which was the test that Weinland himself defined as to whether or not he was a true prophet. Yet none of the 5 specific ministers he referred to are dead.

I'm sure you've managed to explain that away, I'm just curious how.

Dill Weed said...

Weinland Observer,

Thanks for the reply. At least you don't believe blindly.

What if he changes the timeline again?

You see, things keep not happening - over and over.

Time, tick tock, is what will tell.

People eventually stopped believing the boy who cried wolf.

Let us take this journey together.

Dill Weed

Kirrily XPKG said...

Weinland Observer,

Ron's version of the 50th truth, and therefore second timeline is NOT new. And was not new when Ron pronounced it.

James Malm came up with Ron's second time line before Ron himself did. So did Mike from DDTFA incidently. As Ron himself said, it's not rocket science.

Apart from all the obvious failures of his timeframes, it still comes down to something rather simple.

Again - Ron stated he wrote the books, so when things happened EXACTLY as he said it would, people would know who to listen to - who to believe.

Twice now, things have NOT happened EXACTLY as he said they would (not even close) - so all of us out here 'waiting and watching' know he is not to be believed.

People WANT to believe that Ron is who he says he is - no matter what the evidence is.

I believe too, that Ron is sincere, and believes he truly is GFW.

It sounds like from your writing that you are not actually a member of PKG, but like your title - an observer only.

That is good, because if you are a member of PKG you are forbidden from coming to blogs such as this, so you don't want to be disobedient.

Whilst a member of PKG myself for 18 months or so, I never once visited one of this sites in obedience to who I believed was God's servant, and therefore God himself (like you obviously indicate you believe he is).

I know I'm being a bit cheeky here Weinland Observer, and I really don't want to hurt your feelings or anything, but if you believe Ron, then you would also believe what he says that none of this timing can be 'worked out' - that God must 'give it'.

So, that means God 'Gave it' to Ron the first time (as Ron himself said) then changed His mind and gave Ron another timeline (#2).

So who is wrong? God? Ron? No one?

Ron certainly makes a lot of sense about a lot of things - ie. XMas, Easter, Holy Days, traditional christianity etc - but so do TONNES of other COG's!!

Ron is false. What he said God told him, what he DID NOT work out for himself, DID NOT HAPPEN.

Why is it not 'case closed?'

mmmmmm.

Kirrily XPKG said...

Oh and yes, by the way, as I mention in my other posts here, Ron Weinland is one of MANY, MANY, MANY people that have stated the economy will pick up before the true crash (I wasn't around when Ron said this, so I will take your word for it).

Harry Dent is one (financial guru), the makers of 'The Obama Deception' (google it), and David Burton (financial astrologer) are 3 of MANY I know of who are stating the same things.

The difference? They are all being much more specific than Ron. (Some other COG's are GUESSING about these things too. At least they are stating they are guessing and not stating they are prophets or witnesses!!).

Again, Ron is NOT saying ANYTHING different to many different people out there.

A prophet? A witness?

I wished that he was, I wished that he was correct. I hoped that he was, I wanted him to be.

But, I have a brain.

When he told us he was 'given' timing by God, not once but twice - and they did not eventuate (especially the second failure of the 45-90 day timeframe) it was time to admit my error, swallow my pride (yes - pride like ALL current PKG members who are blind to the fact) and FLEE the false prophet.

I know why others are not doing the same - because it seems that Ron has so much truth, that it is easy to ignore the false aspects and cling to an un-reality.

Ron is NOT the only one with the truths that you love so much - so why Ron?

Actually, I don't really care.

I'm just glad I'm out.

I wish you the best Weinland Observer.

Observer said...

Kirrily has stated that PKG members are not allowed to post on these web sites. This is incorrect. Although they are advised to stay away from them as a protection for their minds they are not controlled in any way. People must "work out their own salvation" with the Truth that they are given.

Believer said...

Observer is correct in his last comment. Kirrily said so many other COGs have the same truths that Ron has, so why follow him? That's an easy one. It's the same reason I would give Mike about him asking why the 5th thunder hasn't happened yet. There is only one true Church of God. All the other COGs have been cut off from God because of the apostasy that started on Dec 17, 1994 when Joseph Tkach, Sr. gave his sermon that Sabbath day. God declared Joseph Tkach, Sr. to be the man of sin, the son of perdition. These are facts that can't be denied, unless of course you just flat out disbelieve them. In that case, any arguemnet you have is always going to end in a stalemate. You see, just because someone doesn't have an answer to your questions, that doesn't mean there isn't one. God will reveal everything in His time just like Ron has said. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that COG-PKG is God's one and only church and God will fulfill everything come May 27, 2012. God want His children to have faith. Remember, without faith it's impossible to please God. If God gave every little single proof every person needed, then what would be the point of faith which God says is so vitally important?

Dill Weed said...

Believer and Observer,

God will reveal everything in His time just like Ron has said.

Yep, that is what Ron says and he is committed to May 2012... because God told him. And God told Ron that he has rearranged some of the events of the last 3 1/2 years due to the January fast.

Yep. That is what God revealed to Ron and what Ron revealed to you - like a prophet should.

I find myself wondering when Ron tells you that God has changed what he said earlier, like dates and such, further Trumpet delay, and finally the (Ron and therefore, God declared) postponement of Christ's return, will you still believe he is God's prophet and End Time Witness?

Would the Two Witnesses of Revelation mistake the beginning of their ministry twice? Woud they? I believe that's where we are heading.

The proof of a prophet is that what he says come to pass - Ron's own words.

I hope you hold him to them.

Dill Weed (along for and enjoying the ride)

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

"Believer" made a number of statements.

There is only one true Church of God. All the other COGs have been cut off from God because of the apostasy that started on Dec 17, 1994 when Joseph Tkach, Sr. gave his sermon that Sabbath day. God declared Joseph Tkach, Sr. to be the man of sin, the son of perdition. These are facts that can't be denied, unless of course you just flat out disbelieve them.

For the sake of discussion, let's say that's really, really true. In that argument, there's no proof that COG-PKG is the true church among all the other Armstrongite splinters, or that Ron & Laura are the Two Witnesses.

And there's no answer to the proof that Weinland has been proven a false prophet by his own definition given on pages 107 - 108 of his book.
The most notable deaths early on, which are yet to come to pass, will be the two remaining television presenters in the Living Church of God. The sound of this thunder will be intensified by the early deaths of the leaders of the Philadelphia Church of God, the Restored Church of God and the Church of the Great God. .... How much more specific can one be to show that he is either of God, and indeed His prophet, or someone who has clearly stepped over the line to be dealt with by God in a speedy manner. Time will tell! And, you don’t have long to wait!

Observer, you said one thing that I wholeheartedly agree with:
In that case, any arguemnet you have is always going to end in a stalemate.

You believe because you want to believe, despite the lack of evidence supporting your belief, and all the evidence contradicting it.

You see, just because someone doesn't have an answer to your questions, that doesn't mean there isn't one.

For this question there is an answer and it's very simple: All five of these ministers are still alive, even though some are elderly. Therefore Weinland failed his own test demonstrating him as a false prophet. How much more specific can one be?

I expect that on May 27, 2012 when Christ doesn't return and Weinland doesn't return (maybe he'll be a guest at Club Fed then), you'll still be following him having adjusted to his third and maybe fourth timeline.

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

Harry Dent hasn't always been right, according to his Wikipedia article. But maybe he'll be correct this time and there will be a Great Depression.

But even if the markets crash tomorrow and the Dow goes to 100 signaling the start of the Great Depression, that does not prove Weinland correct. Just "lucky". I've listened to sermons going back to 2003 and he's always saying that the economy is in trouble and there might not be a Feast of Tabernacles that year.

If every day, I predicted a magnitude 7 or higher earthquake tomorrow, then eventually I will be a true prophet. No, not really. But I could sell that idea to a few who wanted to believe.

I'm going to quibble with Kirrily on one point. I didn't exactly come up with Weinland's second timeline before he did, I just announced it before he did based on the clues he gave in his sermon a year ago and some calculations.

But Weinland was not the first to discover the timing relationship between Trumpets 2008 and Pentecost of 2012. As you point out, James Malm had it up on his website long before. And I think that Bob Ardis actually had it even before James did.

So all of Weinland's proof is based on numerology. Sort of like the old saying "Liars, Damn Liars, and Statisticians" Or in this case a false prophet with a minor degree in mathematics from an unaccredited institution.

Weinland Observer said...

A few points. Kirrily, I examined the information you gave to me. That Obama deception vid was an eye-opener, reinforcing conspiritorial history I already know+additional info i discovered. I was going to say some other statements but Believer and Observer pointed them out. What I am interested in is your experience in cog-pkg. How was the setting? Were love and caring present in a different way than you had experienced before. Congregations, feasts, what was it all like? Believer and Observer, any experiences from you? And Kirrily, I don't describe people here as mockers, just as people who do not believe Weinland and give constructive, unsensored criticism, most of the time at least. Finally Mike, you had mentioned earlier that thunder 5 was not sounding. Death, war, and the other thunders are increasing. No rocket science is involved in knowing this. As for ministers' deaths, Weinland has covered this stating they wil occur in the fifth trumpet. Even the book explains this to some extent when it says life will be unbearable and many will still not die. Peace and truth.

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

Weinland has said that the gathering of the "scattering" or the "tithe of the third" of ex-WCG members that were to join PKG during the Great Tribulation has been delayed until the 5th trumpet. If he applied that to the when the "first five" were to die I missed it.

But no matter. His book said that they were to die before the 7th seal opened and the 1st trumpet blew. Come to think of it, that's a true statement. All of this group of five will die, in their own time, and the 7th seal will not have opened.

As far as the other thunders, we've not had another terrorist incident of the magnitude of 9/11. The destruction of weather of 2005 has not repeated. All these occurred before he wrote his book, yet they were to increase in magnitude. Large high magnitude earthquakes have not impacted the modern day nations of Israel.

If you claim the death rate and thunders are increasing, give reliable statistics, not the mention of a few recent events, to prove it. As far as my proof, read the series I put up on them back in November.
So if he changed his book, then it was not divinely inspired. Besides which it failed yet again this morning as the US has not met its demise. Weinland's God is very flexible, changing his mind quite often. I believe that he'll change his mind yet again. And who is Weinland's god? I think that Weinland's statement "Everything I have is God's" tells it all.

So what does he have to point at? The economy. Which was to have resulted from the first three thunders. Not at all. The economy is the result of the business cycle and greed that the Bush administration allowed to grow rampant.

Believer said...

Mike,
Of all the things you responded from my earlier post, I notice the one thing you didn't comment on was the part on faith. If you take faith out of the equation then it's a entirely different ballgame. Besides, only God can let someone see the truth. Obviously, if you don't believe that then again, like I said, any arguement is going to end in a stalemate (which by the way you said observer made that comment when he didn't). Another thing I like to add is one thing that was written on the back cover of Ronald's first book. The first paragraph states, "Ronald Weinland was ordained a minister in God's Church in 1981. Then, in 1997, he was called to be a prophet for this end-time. A prophet, in this context, is "one given inspired interpretation of recorded prophecies." Nowhere does that state that he is some kind of fortune teller. For that reason, perhaps God is working with Ron quite differently that with the prophets of old. Another thing Mike, you like to harp on about Ron's IRS woes, his house, etc... Perhaps Ron didn't do something he should have because of his convictions. So what? We're all human. King David committed adultery and murder. Yet God still said later that David was a man after his own heart. All your so called evidence is nothing more than your reasons for not believing God's true servant. And yes, since I KNOW that COG-PKG is God's only church, no matter what direction God leads His church, I will follow. Even if that does mean May 27, 2012 isn't the return of Christ.

Dill Weed said...

Weinland Observer,

Arguments settle nothing - they result in people becoming entrenched in their own positions.

I respect your right to believe what you will. I suggest though that you allow what you believe to be considered in the light of facts.

Facts don't take sides. Facts are not opinions. They just are and are verifiable by anyone. Again, facts don't take sides. I do not claim to have the market cornered on facts and am open to facts introduced by others and even considered opinions, but facts are the gold standard.

Just to set the record straight, I believe in God and desire to see him wrap things up soon. But, I check to see if what I am allowing myself to believe lines up with fact.

I said all that to say this:

Ron says: Only God can let someone see the truth. (Yes, I agree with that.)

We are encouraged to test the truthfulness of the things we are told... like the Bereans - to see if what we are being told is actually so.

Is it not fair to compare Ron's claims to the facts? I think it is and hope you do too.

Ron claims earthquakes are increasing. This is testable.

What if Ron says that earthquakes are increasing and they haven't been? What if they have not been increasing at all?

Should we disbelieve Ron?

I say no, not yet, but let's put that information over to the side and see what else Ron is saying and whether or not it is happening?

That's fair, right?

I'll have a post up on my blog about earthquakes in a few minutes.

Not with what I think, but with what the US Geologic Survey says, complete with links so you can verify.

Truth fears not facts.

Dill Weed

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

Hebrews 11 says: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

So if faith is what you base your belief on, it's impossible to overcome that with logic.

Even though it doesn't say in Hebrews 11 that the faith kind of evidence in something trumps actual evidence to the contrary.

You've confirmed my expectation that you'll continue to believe Ron even at Christ's non-return in May of 2012.

And I agree that Weinland's violations of his promises, his $381,000 house, and even criminal tax evasion if proven would not make him a false prophet. His standing as a prophet has already been determined by other means, such as Deut. 18:20-22. The other stuff is just icing on the cake.

Thank you for a civil discussion on this, unlike others I've had with Ron's followers. I hope that Ron doesn't lead you someplace you'll regret, if he hasn't already.

Believer said...

No problem Mike. I just wanted to give my reasons for staying with COG-PKG. For example, when Ron said God revealed to him that Christ didn't eternally exist and that this new truth was to be given at this end-time to distinguish God's true church from all the splinter groups of WCG out there; that made complete sense to me because I believe God let me see it. If indeed God can only let people people see His truth (so they believe it) how can something like that ever be proven? That's why I mentioned faith playing a big role in my earlier post. Anyways, take care. I know I'll be alright.

Kirrily XPKG said...

Weinland Observor,

I came into 'God's Church' (as I thought at the time) into Garner Teds organisation in 2002 ish.

I stayed there for quite some time.

I guess like you, finding out about XMas, Easter, traditional christianity etc (which I still believe) I truly felt I had found the answer.

I was married to a pentecostal pasters son at the time, and all these 'new' things I had learned went down like a lead balloon.

Resulted in a painful divorce as he threw me out in the end.

After that, joined PKG about 2 years ago I guess (Left Jan 09).

I loved being a part of PKG - loved all the people, especially Wayne, Chris, Nathan & Sharna.

A few in my little group did go to these types of sites, and I told Wayne what they were doing. They were confronted, did not repent, and were told to leave.

I don't think I exaggerated when I said 'Forbidden' - because 2 I know were told to leave - although I admit not solely for that reason.

It is true the reason for not going to sites such as this not wanting to ruin your faith - and to me that did make sense, and still makes sense.

That is why I wonder why believers of Ron come to sites like this.

I must say, you seem lovely in your nature in being here.

You asked how I found feasts etc - well I must say, I found the feasts with Garner Ted's group a lot more loving (although I did know more people there) and I was sick for the last PKG one (still went, but had torn a peck muscle so was in great pain for the whole time).

The previous PKG feast was kept with only a few of us in QLD.

Feasts by nature are great - days and days of being 'fed' and then you get to associate with like minded people - its awesome.

But - if you had a hobby, say a book club, and did the same thing - it would be just as awesome!! It's a holiday!!

Seriously - that is the part I miss the most. Getting together with like minded people, for an extended period.

Also, to observor, with the Joe Ttkotch thing being one of the key reasons you are with PKG, doesn't it say a count begins (1335??) from when the son of perdition is revealed?? What about that??

I'm a bit rusty on these things - there is probably an answer. I'm not sure.

People like Harry Dent etc can be wrong, can be right - just like Ron.

To me, Ron is just a speculator like everyone else.

I do believe that he is ruining it for a lot of people when the real witnesses actually show up.

Ron may well be on the money soon - and it will be luck only.

Thanks for your comments Weinland Observer, and Observer.

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

A few in my little group did go to these types of sites, and I told Wayne what they were doing. They were confronted, did not repent, and were told to leave.

I find that ironic, because I believe that Wayne has visited my blog. But I guess that evangelists have superhuman powers unlike the rest of the sheeple.

There seems to be a difference between Weinland's public policy annunciated in his sermons, and what really takes place behind the scenes. The PKG participation on the Internet took a nosedive after Weinland talked about "entertaining demons" last year.

Frank said...

For the final sermon on the Last Great Day of the Feast, it is planned that a sermon will be given on the subject of “time, times, and half a time.” God is beginning to give a clearer understanding of what He is doing concerning a “new” significance this expression has for this end-time.

It would be nice if the “new” significance of this expression is that it actually refers to a 1260 years, and not days, period; as somebody else claims.

Tom said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

I relocated Tom's comment to the following post as it related to that content.

todd said...

Believer said...
No problem Mike. I just wanted to give my reasons for staying with COG-PKG. For example, when Ron said God revealed to him that Christ didn't eternally exist and that this new truth was to be given at this end-time to distinguish God's true church from all the splinter groups of WCG out there;


Believer, I highly recommend that you try to compare RW's teachings to what the bible says....based on your comment I've listed, I found a scripture to void that idea...1john 4:1-4.
It also makes null and void the belief that you have to be in COG to be in God's kingdom.
I pray you and the rest of COG repent of your pride and arrogance.

Todd

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

These comments bear out the subtext in the banner on this blog:

"Ronald Weinland's followers believe that he speaks for God, despite the failures of his prophecies, timeline changes, and contradictions. Faith in one man with unproved and disproven claims trumps all logic and reason for them. Some people prefer to avoid doing their own thinking, turning it over to others such as Ron Weinland."