I had another exchange with Weinland follower "RJ" in the comments section of an earlier post. At the end, RJ left a long screed, and I thought it worthy of its own post for the reply. I had made an unkind comment about Herbert Armstrong. After an initial exchange, he responded as shown below in italics along with my responses.
You irritate me when you bash Armstrong or Weinland with your fallacious accusations, and ridiculous innuendos [like the name of this site].
Please tell me what are all the accusations I made that are demonstrably false. We've already discussed the Armstrong incest issue. As far as the title of my blog being a ridiculous innuendo, I don't think you get it. I never said that I thought Weinland's followers would drink poisoned grape Flavor Aid as in the Jonestown Massacre -- actually I've said the opposite. But to use Ronnie's vernacular, they (and you) are drinking spiritual Flavor Aid -- Weinland's Flavor Aid. (I'm providing another hint due to the density factor: think "Kool Aid")
Yes; Ron Weinland was wrong in his interviews, but there are many examples of other servants of God being wrong. One example; Moses- when the Israelites badly needed water, Moses became filled with self-importance and he was goimg to give the Israelites water by stricking the rock with arod. But Moses was punished for taking the glory of providing water, instead of giving God the credit.
Weinland has been wrong in his sermons also. And as you said, Moses was wrong. And what was his punishment? He was not allowed to enter the promised land with the Israelites. Now wouldn't that be a fitting punishment for Ron, not being able to enter his "promised land", since he also was wrong? Actually, that will be a fitting punishment, and more so if it were in addition to the biblical punishment of Revelation 22:18-19 which is highly appropriate in Ron's case.
Perhaps Ron Weinland was filled with self-importance when he gave those interviews, and needed to be more humble.
No perhaps about it. He claimed the Two Witnesses would be humble. So how is it that he was not humble? (The answer is obvious, if you'll think about it a bit.)
And Ronnie claims that he was pushed by the interviewers to be specific. A reasoned listen to the interviews and past sermons shows that not to be the case.
Even though Moses was wrong, he still was the leader of physical Israel then, and even though Ron Weinland was wrong, he is still the leader of spiritual Israel now. I mostly believe this because I beleive in the 50 thruths as posted on the COG-PKG website.
Why do you believe Weinland is and ever was the leader of "spiritual Israel"? And why do you believe the 50 "truths"? That really, really puzzles me. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and Weinland has diddly squat. He has failed the tests he defined for himself as a prophet. And the 50th "truth" -- where did that come from besides his fevered imagination? Any scriptures to back it up? So what if it happens to be 1290 days between two certain dates, and 40 weeks between another pair of dates? So what!!!
Now and especially since dec 14, Ron Weinland and the Cog-pkg are greatly humbling themselves and turning to God in humility and prayer.
Are they now? Perhaps the members, but Ron is as arrogant as ever. I hope none of the members die or suffer permanently from the two-day fast this coming weekend.
No,I don't think you are going to die because you repeated a lie about Armstrong, but I thought that the quote from Frank Lamply And it will come to pass that they will love the lie more than the truth; even unto death" applied to you because you are so set in your ways, against Armstrong or Weinland that you won't change no matter what, until after you die.
Again, we don't know that it's a lie. If it were a lie, Armstrong should have defended himself while alive, both in in divorce proceeding and when accused by a newspaper.
Yes, I'll change after I die because I'll be decaying, but for sure won't be believing what Herbie and Ronnie say.
My prayer for you is that you will repent, if not in this life, then after you are resurrected. That is Ron Weinlands desire for you too. Your my fellow human being and I wish the best for you.
Repent of what? Criticizing a false prophet? Don't think so. And if my "repentance" is going to happen, it can only happen before I "die speedily". As far as Weinland desiring my repentance, the only thing he's said that he desires for me is to die speedily. Though I suspect he wouldn't mind a bit if I became brain damaged, started following him, and turned over all my savings to him to subsidize his prophetic delusions and Swiss retirement account. (Note that I'm skeptical about his claims that he has repatriated those funds.)
As for when you're going to die, eventually you will. Since time is relative, the adjectives, slow speedily or whenever will work, but not the adjective "never".
How could dying slow "work"? That would be a violation of Ron's curse. As far as my dying eventually, that's absolutely true. As it is for you and all of those who think they are part of "the 144,000". Ron and Laura Weinland will also die, but not on the streets of Jerusalem 3 1/2 days before Christ's return (whether that's September of 2011, May of 2012, or the next date that Weinland announces).
By the way, I am not a member of COG-PKG nor was I a member of WWCG. These are just some of my thoughts, if I was a member of COG-PKG, I wouldn't make comments in your blog.
Thank you for clarifying your membership status. I think there may be a piece of you that refuses to let go of all sanity and follow Ron totally. I hope that piece will pull you back from the brink of the pit of Weinland's delusions.
I know you won't agree with me, you will probably ridicule what I wrote. Perhaps you will agree with this. The god of this world satan has done a masterful job of deceiving the world and causing massive confusion and pain.
Obviously, I don't agree with you. And yet, Satan has used Herbie and now Ronnie to deceive their followers and inflict confusion and pain. You probably will take this as ridicule, and yes in part it is. But it really is my hope that you'll wake up and recognize how Armstrong and Weinland have deceived you.
PS Smoking, drinking to much and reading your blog are bad habits. I don't smoke or drink, but I need to stop reading your blog!
PSS Since you get satisfaction with people commenting and reading your blog, I'm not going to comment anymore and I'm going to wean myself of reading it too.
I agree with you that smoking and excessive drinking are bad habits. But I hope you'll continue reading my blog, for your own benefit and not for mine. Whether you do or don't read my blog, I hope you'll start examining Weinland's audacious claims in the cold light of logic and reality.
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12 comments:
Most of the these people are true believers in the systems that holds them captive, in the same way that the Nazis were brainwashed into believing that the holocaust was a good thing, and in the same way that Enron(a financial cult)convinced investors to keep investing until the company crashed-ie,"The Smartest Guys in the Room" by Peter Elkin is a good source to read on just how easy the public is convinced by charismatic makers and shakers of the financial world. The same thing happens in the political and religious world.
We see and believe what we want to see and believe, even to the point of denial.
Prophecy is not something that you get better at over time, like learning a new skill or sport. You either have the gift, or you don't. Weinland *thinks* he has the gift, but his fruits speak otherwise. No matter how much he tries to improve or how badly he wants it, it just isn't going to happen. The most obvious reason is that God will not give that gift to someone who doesn't have the gospel and follow the basic commands of God.
That being said, his followers will only stop believing their leader only when they realize that they can have a relationship with God without him. They don't need him to tell them what to do or think or say or believe. God gives them that ability through Jesus.
That's what we are really dealing with here, in my opinion... a really warped view of Jesus, the Son of God. When you get right down to it; Weinland, in all his zeal, denies the Son of God through his deeds and words. Therefore, denying his followers from truly knowing God and having a personal relationship with Him.
Believes in the 50 "Truths", eh? Send the 50 "Truths" people here:
50 Truths Part 1
If no one makes a railing accusation against us because of this stuff (actually, it's because they can't refute it, and their desire to hold to their fantasy is manifesting as anger), then I haven't done a good enough job.
And to make it easy on the reader,
50 "Truths" Part 2
50 "Truths" Part 3
But I have a feeling that RJ will refuse to be convinced.
"their desire to hold to their fantasy is manifesting as anger"
How true that is! When we expose a fantastic lie, those who believed it do not want to look foolish, so they defensively cling to any explanation that continues to prop up the lie.
Here is an unpublished comment from two sermons ago:
"I know where Ron is going with this fasting thing. After the cog package prays and fasts several times, his god will delay the timing of the trumpets to allow more time to gather the scattered into the "true church". Like an ageing sitcom Ron keeps coming up with plot lines to keep the show going."
We say Ron's trumpets and thunders are a lie. His followers defend with more lies.
There is an old saying that applies here. "If you tell a lie, you have to tell another lie to cover the previous lie." And so on.
I agree, Mike! He won't read it.
I keep wondering where some of these people come from. Do they honestly believe that they need some sort of prophet or teacher in order to have their own relationship with God?
Regardless as to whether we happen to be Christian or atheist, I believe most of us would like to see others be able to live their lives without toxic factors in them. Armstrongism is toxic, and most of us who have been there, done that, and got the T-shirt know the many ways. Sometimes I just don't know how we could best help the poor frogs that cling to their cultism, even to the point of believing that freedom to read is equivalent to smoking and boozing it up! It's so sad that they feel sorry for us!
BB
It's bad to smoke and drink too much???
Maybe reading blogs...but NOT THAT!!!
OOOOHHH NOOO!
:-)
Believing the 50th truth is just like believing HWA's teaching that the "H-Days" represented God's plan... Problem is, HWA's teaching can't be proven in scripture. There are holy days mentioned of course, but the connection to God's plan for mankind is something HWA dremt up. People choose to believe him or not. But it can't be proven from scripture. So if you want to believe HWA's teaching on this... you are simply believing a guy that says something. Sorta like believing the guys who say they saw Big Foot or the Lock Ness Monster. You either believe them or not, but their is no evidence.
Personally, I have learned NOT to believe much that comes out of ANYONE's mouths.
The problem, Anon, is that with Armstrongism, you couldn't tell which orifice it was even coming from in the first place! Some of the stuff, you could. But, certainly anything HWA or any of the others had to say about prophecy, they were obviously articulating from the round and brown orifice.
So Ron Weinland is using the "I was pushed" defense?!
Like those old bumper stickers about Humpty Dumpty?!?!
He has a great future playing wide receiver in the NFL.
Ron Weinland is sounding more and more like Rod Blagojevich, former governor of Illinois. Even with overwhelming evidence against him, he is still defending himself. Unfortunately, the governmental structure of his church doesn't allow for his impeachment. People will just have to impeach by using their feet.
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