Dueling Prophets Call For Each Other's Death

David Pack gave a sermon on July 19th. In it he said:
Now this goofy fellow who moved to the Middle East and proclaimed things that were going to happen all through the Spring and into the Summer, and supposedly as recently as Wednesday was another big date. Of course none of it happened. He's a false prophet. But what did happen is, he explained that things are taking longer than he'd thought. He actually publicly chastised himself for speaking perhaps a little presumptuously when nuclear destruction didn't happen. Now what he should do is look in the Old Testament and see exactly what God says you should do with a false prophet. I didn't note him announcing that should occur. God said don't fear such a person. Just put them to death. That's the end of it. But instead people will continue to listen to somebody who's blown a trumpet and screamed that he's false.

A bit of context. The prior Wednesday, July 16th, was the end of the 45-90-day period proclaimed by Ronald Weinland for "nukular" explosions in port cities. (Ron should listen to Pack to learn how to pronounce "nuclear".)

Pack got a few things right, and also some wrong. Weinland is a "goofy fellow" but he didn't move to the Middle East, he only visited Jerusalem for a week. Weinland is still humbly living in splendor in the Cincinnati area, in a house similar to Pack's manse a couple of hundred miles north in Wadsworth, Ohio.

Weinland has already called for Pack's death in his book "2008: God's Final Witness" as part of the 5th Thunder that he invented. See page 108 where Ron wrote:
The sound of this thunder will be intensified by
the early deaths of the leaders of the Philadelphia Church of God,
the Restored Church of God and the Church of the Great God. For those unfamiliar with the various CoGs, Dave Pack is the ayatollah of the Restored Church of God.

Pack has a little more basis for his call for Weinland's death. Deut. 18:20-22 says:
20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?"
22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

I wonder if in 2020 Pack will be calling for death when his vague prophecies don't materialize. Actually, I don't wonder. He'll say that things are slowing down, or maybe even paused so that the church can better prepare.

It's About the Paycheck

The audio in this clip is of the Paycheck Collector Ronald Weinland himself speaking in his last sermon of 2007 titled "Stay the Course, Part 1". It can be heard in its original context in the sermon that can be downloaded from the cog-pkg.org website. At least that is until the sermon is pulled and/or edited. If you don't want to listen to the False Prophet more than you have to, skip forward in the playback to the 1 hour and 2 minutes point. Or read the transcript at the Pentecost 2012 blog.

The False Prophet asks rhetorically "what if what Ron Weinland and what he says doesn't come to pass in April?" He had the correct answer then, too bad his followers don't remember it now.

Swimming in the Cesspool

Yesterday's sermon might or might not have finished the book of 1 John as Weinland said he planned to do. Mostly he rambled on with a continuation of his mind control.

At the beginning he mentioned that his trip schedule was posted at places he wanted, and at places he didn't. Just trying to do a service, Ronnie.

Ronald repeated his bathroom comparisons of a few weeks ago, referring to the Internet as a cesspool and The Journal as "the urinal".

One message that the Insane Liar hammered on was that the members should avoid other sources with messages that conflicted with his. Ron, is your world view so shakey that it can't stand a little competition? I've been listening for months and haven't been converted yet. However, I do say "amazing" more often. But, hey .... Oh dang it, there I go again.

Am I a Trendsetter or What?

A few weeks ago I published photos of the front and rear of the Insane Lying False Prophet Ronald Weinland's "humble" abode, with the intent not to show where he and the Silent Witness live but rather how they live.

In the past couple of days Gavin Rumney's Ambassador Watch blog has shown a picture of False Prophet Roderick Meredith's house, and Stan Gardner has quickly followed up on his Ambassador Reports blog with a picture of Clarion-Call-False-Prophet-to-be Dave Pack's house, with even better geo-locating information than I provided about my subject False Prophet's location. Now we understand what "Get those assets here" means. Indication seems to be that False Propheting is a lucrative business, particularly if you set yourself up as top dog in your own CoG-let clone of WCG, elevating HWA to biblical character status. I guess I chose the wrong career path, choosing to pursue a technical degree as my house even in a non-deprived area is valued at less than half of any of theirs.

Could some other blogger please continue the trend? Perhaps a picture of That False Prophet Gerry "Six-Pack" Flurry's house? Might need a Ghillie suit or a black helicopter for that one though, as I understand That Prophet's house is well ensconced within his compound down in Edmond, OK.

And since I broke the story of False Prophet Ronald Weinland's troubles with the IRS, I'm hoping that I've started a trend in that arena as well. Let's hope that my "skillz" as a trend-setter are not just a flash in the pan. Wouldn't it be great if Ron, Rod, and all the other False Profits would end up sharing the same living accommodations in a gated community, with civil government impeding their exploitation of the gullible?

Any blogger up to the challenge should understand that Thielogical Bob will probably quote your story but will NOT provide a link since you're ANTI-COG, which ranks you somewhere near Satan in his estimation. He'll do this no matter which False Prophet you're talking about, even if it isn't his Favorite False Prophet you're talking about.

The Fiftieth Truth: All About the Mockers

Ronald Weinland put up one of his rare posts on his blog, entitled "Thunders Grow Stronger". He starts out by stating that he had added the Fiftieth Truth to the church website. He uses a great deal of Fiftieth Truth writeup to address his critics and mockers, quoted below.

God could have revealed this truth at any time, and it has always been solely within His own power and prerogative to do so whenever He chose. God had given the Church most of the understanding concerning the meaning of the Feast of Trumpets, but not all. God has now given the Church to understand some of those reasons why He has chosen to reveal this great truth just before Trumpets of 2008.
1) This is part of a continuing process to make a distinction in the Church (the actual physical organization where the spiritual body of the Church is being nurtured and led through whom God is working) and all other organizations who were scattered from the Church (where God is no longer working).
2) This was reserved until now because there is a continuing spiritual battle against Satan and his demons. Satan and the demons know their time of reign is nearly over and then they will be removed from the presence of mankind for 1,000 years, but they have not fully known what that exact timing involved. God is about to expose Satan and the demon world for the true evil they are.
3) God is also going to reveal the perverted attitude and spirit of all who mock Him, His Church, and His servants. Those who scoff, criticize, ridicule, and mock God’s Church have used the occasion of this revelation to find fault with God’s Church for changing doctrine (as they see it) and timing in order to better suit their own false needs. Such critics foolishly and unwittingly put themselves in a position of judging God. The very thing they mock is the very thing that will end up being used to mock them. God is revealing the kind of hatred that has existed in the hearts of men and women toward Him and His people for nearly 6,000 now.
4) As part of a direct relationship to the previous point, this very thing that scoffers and mockers try to use to discredit God’s end-time prophet and two witnesses is one of the very things that God will use (in a far greater way) to prove who it is through whom He is working. In reality, the fulfillment of the 50th Truth will be great evidence of God’s true servants and the events that reveal the fulfilling of this truth will put mockers and scoffers to shame.

The scoffers and mockers are not scoffing at God, His Church, or His Servants. We're scoffing and mocking God's False Prophet, Ronald Weinland. "2008: God's False Witness". Got it, Ronnie? Oh, and by the way: my insides are still doing fine.

Does He Remind You of Anyone?

Terry Wrozek (sometimes misspelled as Wrozack) of the Detroit/Toledo area is one of Weinland's elders. He was also involved in Weinland's seizure of control from the Church of God, Toledo in 2000. Wrozek is one of the few besides Ron to give a sermon.

Compare this picture of Terry to this other picture.

You're Just Looking for an Excuse

In Ronald Weinland's sermon of August 16, he implied that anyone having a valid reason to leave his church is actually looking for an excuse to leave, that their actual reason is more personal, perhaps sex.

At about 1:08 into the sermon, he said to go look at his critics' websites to see what his flaws are, but immediately backed off and said not to look. Then he characterized critics' sites as garbage. Appears that he's laying on more mind control for those who have and those who have yet to find out about his IRS problems. His point will be that if you leave his church over his lack of credibility, that it's really your fault -- you're just looking for an excuse.

At another point he talked about his house on a golf course, mockingly saying he's rich. He claimed to have a better rapport with the greens-keepers and other laborers than he does with more educated people. Well, Ron, I think you are rich. I suggest that you keep your word to stop preaching and abusing your members. Give your wealth to those you've victimized, and perform some honest labor with those you get along with.

To any members who've decided to brave the threat of disfellowshipment and check out the websites of critics: no, you shouldn't accept what we say without checking it out. At the same time, you should not require a greater standard of proof from a critic than you have from Weinland, who has no credibility. Don't accept at face value anything stated by Weinland, who proves himself to be a liar every time he stands in front of you and preaches. If you remember, Weinland promised to stop preaching if the First Trumpet wasn't apparent by Pentecost, and here we are 2 1/2 months later and he's still yapping away. No, you don't need an excuse to leave Ron and his mental and financial abuse. You've got great reasons. And leaving Ron is NOT leaving God.

Spin Like It's 1979

In last Saturday's sermon, the Insane Liar Ronald Weinland made reference to the 1979 receivership episode that the WCG was subjected to, apparently using it as an analogy to his as yet unmentioned (by him) IRS problems.

Let's compare the two situations. For those under the age of 40 or who don't have a COG background, the receivership crisis was summarized in print as it transpired by the original anti-CoG critic, John Trechek, in the Ambassador Report semi-periodical that he self-published. The Internet was not being available in those days. Unfortunately John died in 1999 well before his time or he'd undoubtedly be a potent anti-CoG force on the Internet.

In the 1979 case, the California Attorney General working with several dissident members filed civil suit against HWA, WCG, and other individuals and entities. A judge placed the WCG in the hands of a receiver charged with auditing the books. Initially HWA seemed to cooperate, placing C. Wayne Cole in charge. But then he changed his mind, firing and later disfellowshipping Cole, and ending his cooperation. Stan Rader led the charge for HWA, fighting the receivership in court, both state and federal. He also led a public relations campaign, enlisting the support of other churches and gave interviews. The one he gave with 60 Minutes did not turn out well for him, with Mike Wallace making mince meat of Rader.

During the legal maneuvering in California, HWA hid out in his home in Tucson, Arizona, safe from being served a subpoena. He instructed his followers to send the tithe checks payable directly to him, and after awhile set up a legal entity known as a Corporation Sole, which meant that he had the benefits of a Corporation with none of the hassles of having to deal with a board of directors.

Eventually HWA prevailed by political means, with state Sen. Petris sponsoring a bill that eventually became law which stripped the Attorney General of the power to investigate religious organizations. Soon after its enactment, Attorney General Deukmajien, dropped the suit.

The episode is covered in greater detail at the Ambassador Report page hosted by The Painful Truth website. Issues of interest are :
AR7, AR8, AR9, AR10, AR11, AR12, AR13, & AR14.

Weinland situation is different. He is under criminal investigation while the 1979 case was civil (although I imagine it could have turned criminal if the audit had not been impeded). HWA had an attorney, Stan Rader, already in his stable and able to fight this.

So far the COG-PKG is not a target of the IRS, but the IRS is seeking informations about church transactions. That could change if the IRS finds as I suspect they will that his finances are commingled with the church's.

And Weinland with his unhedged prophecies is not likely to gather political support, even more so since he'd have to influence the US Congress instead of just a state legislature.

I expect Weinland to continue to reference 1979 as he did in last Saturday's sermon. When the word about his IRS situation gets out to his membership as it inevitably will, he will amp up the rhetoric about stirred up demons. He will probably blame a critic for involving the IRS. Should this end up in a court trial, I expect the courtroom to be packed with his members. Perhaps they'll hold church services their to slow things down, as the WCG did in the WCG administration building in 1979.

Weinland, unlike HWA, is personally involved in the case. He does not have the option as HWA did of hiding out in an adjacent state a short flight away in his Gulfstream jet. The best he could do is to find a foreign country without an extradition treaty where he could settle. Ron should avoid Pakistan unless he can persuade Osama to share his cave, as the Pakistanis would like to take their own legal steps against Weinland.

Ronald Weinland Vs The United States of America

WeinlandTranscripted has a post on his blog about Ron Weinland's Armageddon with the IRS showing court documents confirming my "Great Tribulation" IRS CID story.

Congrats to WT on his find.

Run Ron Run

In his sermon of August 9, Ronald Weinland continued in his series from 1 John, along with generous heapings of mind control for those who still follow him. He talked about the thousands who "hate God's way".

At about 14 minutes into the sermon, he referred to a "spirit world out there right now that is stirred up mightily." He went on to say that he hadn't seen a time like this before, the only thing remotely close to it was during the 1979 receivership imposed on WCG by the California Attorney General. Then he related the tale of HWA's flight to Arizona, and that tithe checks were sent to Herbert W Armstrong, A Corporation Sole. He mocked the CA AG for not realizing that the tithe slaves would do what the head of the church required, without question, with great desire.

He tried to relate this to any adversity the membership might be facing. "We're at the height of a battle right now." He talked about some hardships he's been going through in the last month. Of course Ron is facing a significant adversity on his own with an IRS criminal investigation breathing down his neck.

Could the Insane Liar be getting ready to run to some foreign country safe from extradition? After all, he can upload his sermons from his laptop with the satellite modem from anywhere in the world, and collect tithe checks by mail. He wouldn't be able to give a tax receipt so that the tithe slaves can deduct them on their income tax returns. But hey, that's just another adversity that the demons have stirred up. Only time will tell, but it could be telling if the False Prophet takes additional opportunities in future sermons to further remind his followers of the 1979 receivership episode.

His admonitions to his followers to be tolerant of others who don't believe in Ron were more that offset by statements about looking forward to the deaths of critics and mockers when Christ returns. I did not get the sense that the death curse against me has been lifted. I'll be losing about 2 nanoseconds of sleep over that -- or less.

Rabid Weinland Haters

The Weinland Witness blog and associated forum is a gathering spot for Weinland followers and wannabees. Any dissent is quashed with the offending comment simply deleted. One commenter who mentioned hell was threatened with banning after one of the Weinland followers complained that it didn't fit in with Weinland's theology.

In contrast we have the Ironwolf Forum. A range of opinions is allowed there, though the Weinland followers are challenged by the majority who are critics. Citizen X, the moderator of the Weinland Witness sites has used the term "rabid Weinland-haters", apparently to include me and all the other critics on the Ironwolf forum.

Three weeks ago the story broke of the banning of Weinland's books in Pakistan's Sindh province. A poll was put up on the Ironwolf Forum asking for the opinion of the forumites on whether these books should be banned. Here are the results.


In this forum filled with "rabid Weinland-haters" the vast majority voted that the books should not be banned. (I don't know who was the one person voting for banning, I was one of the 9 voting against banning.) Seems the Weinland-haters are not so rabid that they're willing to allow their hatred to overcome general principles. In contrast to Citizen X (who has also posted to the Ironwolf Forum as "John G") who simply won't allow any criticism on his sites.

"Rabid Weinland Followers"? Seems so to me. They've followed him into one timeline change, I just wonder how many more. I suspect as many as he'll put out there with as many silly explanations as he can muster. I hope that if Ronald Weinland is guilty of criminal behavior then the Feds will be successful at putting him away for awhile.

Happy Anniversary, Ron and Laura.

It's been 33 years since the two of you were married. And in another 4 months you'll have been married a third of a century. And then eleven days later you'll again start your jobs as the Spokesman Witness and the Silent Witness.

But if the IRS Criminal Investigation Division is able to substantiate criminal activity, then you may have to swap roles. The Federal Bureau of Prisons puts severe restrictions on outside communications by inmates. They also limit a prisoner's property, so Ron, you wouldn't be able to bring in your laptop with the satellite modem and continue to give sermons. No sermons to others, unless you can convert your fellow prisoners.

Laura Weinland, you may have to step up to the plate for real this time. No Witnessing by witnessing your husband Witness. You may need to be the Spokesman Witness this time. You need to at least learn how to pronounce curses on your critics.

And while you're at it you should also get a crash course in timeline changing, when the second one goes down the tubes.

So again, Mr. & Mrs. False Prophet, happy anniversary -- enjoy the rest of the day as you have a lot of preparation to do. And don't worry, I haven't sent you anything with the scent of tiger lilies. Nor have I provided your address to anyone else to do that or anything else. As far as gifts, I'm a heterosexual male so I don't know what is appropriate for a 33rd anniversary -- sackcloth, maybe?

Ronald Weinland's Personal Great Tribulation

Update: on Nov 10, 2011 Ronald Weinland was indicted for tax fraud and was arraigned on Nov 23.
In a recent sermon, Ron-who-speaks-for-God mentioned that there are spiritual battles of which the members are not aware. Perhaps he was referring to the battle in which he is engaged.

Ronald Weinland is being investigated by the Criminal Investigation Division (CID) of the Internal Revenue Service. They are looking into his taxes beginning with tax year 2004 and including all of the years since. An investigation by the IRS CID should not be confused with a more common taxpayer audit. The IRS CID is described:
"The Criminal Investigation Division (CID) is the IRS police department. With the help of the court system, CID puts people in jail. They don’t wear uniforms like police, but they carry gold badges and guns like police. If somebody says they are from CID of the IRS, you or somebody you know is under criminal investigation and may go to jail."

In 2007 the IRS Criminal Investigation Division started only 4211 investigations and referred 2837 cases for prosecution. In 2007, 2323 were prosecuted and 2155 convicted. So it should be emphasized that not everyone investigated is actually guilty of a tax code violation. So the IRS CID investigation does not mean that Ronald Weinland is a criminal -- that can only be decided by the courts.

On the COG-PKG FAQ page is stated: "The Church of God – PKG teaches that all who follow the teachings of the Church should be law-abiding citizens and that all are to support and cooperate with law enforcement agencies. " However the Spokesman Witness has engaged legal counsel and is seeking to impede the investigation by legal means.

Ron, since your church teaches that you should be law abiding, then you've done nothing wrong, wouldn't that be correct? Ron, it is certainly your right to avail yourself of legal counsel. But Ron, since you are a man who is true to his word, when you signed your tax returns you were being true to your word and should have nothing to fear by cooperating as your church teaches, right? After all, only about 1/2 of people investigated by the IRS CID are convicted so since you are a man who is true to his word you wouldn't be convicted -- right, Ron? You are a man who is always true to his word -- isn't that right, Ron?

Updates: August 9 sermon, ILFPRW talks about spiritual battles.
WeinlandTranscripted finds court documents supporting this story.

Sept 4, 2008. IRS and Weinland settle the dispute about the summonses.
Sept 14, 2008. Weinland admits "government problems" to his congregation.