A Big Bruhaha

For some reason the topic of Herbert Armstrong's alleged incestuous relationship with his daughter Dorothy has occupied the CoG blogosphere in the past few days. I had an exchange on the topic with RJ. The topic was also debated in this recent post on Ambassador Watch. Gavin has a new post this morning that compiles the different sources of this allegation.

Those who idolize Herbert Armstrong such as RJ insist that it didn't happen. Living CoG apologist Bob Thiel quickly responded this morning with his "Not Guilty" post.

If I were on a criminal jury for a trial of HWA on incest charges, I'd have to find Armstrong "not guilty" based on what's been presented. That wouldn't mean that I thought he was innocent, just that I didn't feel that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to the standards required for a criminal conviction.

But I'm not on a criminal jury. We're not deciding whether or not to criminally convict him. So I can evaluate what has been presented and decide for myself whether or not I believe it. I think it quite plausible that HWA did what he was accused of. In fact I think it more likely that he did it than that he didn't.

Since we don't have conclusive evidence, those who idolize HWA are free to disbelieve it. I rather suspect they'd still disbelieve it even if there were a videotape of HWA doing the nasty with his daughter.

I have to agree with Byker Bob, who posts on various CoG blogs and forums, that it was unfortunate in a way that the incest allegation came to light. It turns the conversation toward the possible abuse by HWA of one child and away from his abuse of thousands of other children who grew up in Armstrongism. And adults as well. As he humorously posted elsewhere:
"Overheard at Weiner Dude's house this past weekend: "Laura, come out of the bathtub, baby. You're not going to believe this! The heat is off! All the bloggers have resurrected the old HWA incest stories and are preoccupied with that instead of us!""

Ronald Weinland has taken Herbie's membership abuse and gone further. While he doesn't have the number of members (his membership number is more on the order of a tithe of a tithe of a third of what WCG was at its peak) he has demanded more from each of those who do follow him. He has transferred his prophetic delusions to them and demanded their life savings. While a good deal of it is used to finance promoting his prophetic fantasies, there seems to be plenty left over to finance a lifestyle exceeding that of the average person including a nice $381,00 home and travels abroad such as his recent tour of the pyramids of Egypt.

Weinland is further abusing his followers, demanding a two-day fast. While he has limited this to members in good health, it's still abusive. I hope there are no health repercussions or deaths. Hopefully he will modify this at least to the extent of having them drink water, as he did during the one-day fast he called earlier in the month.

RJ Drinks the Flavor Aid

I had another exchange with Weinland follower "RJ" in the comments section of an earlier post. At the end, RJ left a long screed, and I thought it worthy of its own post for the reply. I had made an unkind comment about Herbert Armstrong. After an initial exchange, he responded as shown below in italics along with my responses.

You irritate me when you bash Armstrong or Weinland with your fallacious accusations, and ridiculous innuendos [like the name of this site].

Please tell me what are all the accusations I made that are demonstrably false. We've already discussed the Armstrong incest issue. As far as the title of my blog being a ridiculous innuendo, I don't think you get it. I never said that I thought Weinland's followers would drink poisoned grape Flavor Aid as in the Jonestown Massacre -- actually I've said the opposite. But to use Ronnie's vernacular, they (and you) are drinking spiritual Flavor Aid -- Weinland's Flavor Aid. (I'm providing another hint due to the density factor: think "Kool Aid")

Yes; Ron Weinland was wrong in his interviews, but there are many examples of other servants of God being wrong. One example; Moses- when the Israelites badly needed water, Moses became filled with self-importance and he was goimg to give the Israelites water by stricking the rock with arod. But Moses was punished for taking the glory of providing water, instead of giving God the credit.

Weinland has been wrong in his sermons also. And as you said, Moses was wrong. And what was his punishment? He was not allowed to enter the promised land with the Israelites. Now wouldn't that be a fitting punishment for Ron, not being able to enter his "promised land", since he also was wrong? Actually, that will be a fitting punishment, and more so if it were in addition to the biblical punishment of Revelation 22:18-19 which is highly appropriate in Ron's case.

Perhaps Ron Weinland was filled with self-importance when he gave those interviews, and needed to be more humble.

No perhaps about it. He claimed the Two Witnesses would be humble. So how is it that he was not humble? (The answer is obvious, if you'll think about it a bit.)

And Ronnie claims that he was pushed by the interviewers to be specific. A reasoned listen to the interviews and past sermons shows that not to be the case.

Even though Moses was wrong, he still was the leader of physical Israel then, and even though Ron Weinland was wrong, he is still the leader of spiritual Israel now. I mostly believe this because I beleive in the 50 thruths as posted on the COG-PKG website.

Why do you believe Weinland is and ever was the leader of "spiritual Israel"? And why do you believe the 50 "truths"? That really, really puzzles me. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and Weinland has diddly squat. He has failed the tests he defined for himself as a prophet. And the 50th "truth" -- where did that come from besides his fevered imagination? Any scriptures to back it up? So what if it happens to be 1290 days between two certain dates, and 40 weeks between another pair of dates? So what!!!

Now and especially since dec 14, Ron Weinland and the Cog-pkg are greatly humbling themselves and turning to God in humility and prayer.

Are they now? Perhaps the members, but Ron is as arrogant as ever. I hope none of the members die or suffer permanently from the two-day fast this coming weekend.

No,I don't think you are going to die because you repeated a lie about Armstrong, but I thought that the quote from Frank Lamply And it will come to pass that they will love the lie more than the truth; even unto death" applied to you because you are so set in your ways, against Armstrong or Weinland that you won't change no matter what, until after you die.

Again, we don't know that it's a lie. If it were a lie, Armstrong should have defended himself while alive, both in in divorce proceeding and when accused by a newspaper.

Yes, I'll change after I die because I'll be decaying, but for sure won't be believing what Herbie and Ronnie say.

My prayer for you is that you will repent, if not in this life, then after you are resurrected. That is Ron Weinlands desire for you too. Your my fellow human being and I wish the best for you.

Repent of what? Criticizing a false prophet? Don't think so. And if my "repentance" is going to happen, it can only happen before I "die speedily". As far as Weinland desiring my repentance, the only thing he's said that he desires for me is to die speedily. Though I suspect he wouldn't mind a bit if I became brain damaged, started following him, and turned over all my savings to him to subsidize his prophetic delusions and Swiss retirement account. (Note that I'm skeptical about his claims that he has repatriated those funds.)

As for when you're going to die, eventually you will. Since time is relative, the adjectives, slow speedily or whenever will work, but not the adjective "never".

How could dying slow "work"? That would be a violation of Ron's curse. As far as my dying eventually, that's absolutely true. As it is for you and all of those who think they are part of "the 144,000". Ron and Laura Weinland will also die, but not on the streets of Jerusalem 3 1/2 days before Christ's return (whether that's September of 2011, May of 2012, or the next date that Weinland announces).

By the way, I am not a member of COG-PKG nor was I a member of WWCG. These are just some of my thoughts, if I was a member of COG-PKG, I wouldn't make comments in your blog.

Thank you for clarifying your membership status. I think there may be a piece of you that refuses to let go of all sanity and follow Ron totally. I hope that piece will pull you back from the brink of the pit of Weinland's delusions.

I know you won't agree with me, you will probably ridicule what I wrote. Perhaps you will agree with this. The god of this world satan has done a masterful job of deceiving the world and causing massive confusion and pain.

Obviously, I don't agree with you. And yet, Satan has used Herbie and now Ronnie to deceive their followers and inflict confusion and pain. You probably will take this as ridicule, and yes in part it is. But it really is my hope that you'll wake up and recognize how Armstrong and Weinland have deceived you.

PS Smoking, drinking to much and reading your blog are bad habits. I don't smoke or drink, but I need to stop reading your blog!

PSS Since you get satisfaction with people commenting and reading your blog, I'm not going to comment anymore and I'm going to wean myself of reading it too.

I agree with you that smoking and excessive drinking are bad habits. But I hope you'll continue reading my blog, for your own benefit and not for mine. Whether you do or don't read my blog, I hope you'll start examining Weinland's audacious claims in the cold light of logic and reality.

Be Patient With God

False Prophet Ronald Weinland was on the road again yesterday, this time in the Phoenix area. As usual, Laura accompanied him. But so did his daughter Audra and son-in-law Chris. Additionally his elder Ralph Dowd from the Cincinnati area was there. Perhaps Weinland didn't want to give his own closing prayer again. With elder Don Edwards covering the opening prayer, Dowd was there to handle the closing. Probably Don got chewed out later because he failed to ask God to bless the Internet connection and there was a connection loss for several minutes during the middle of the sermon. I wonder if the travel expenses of all these extra people was paid for with the tithes and offerings of the False Profit's followers.

Next weekend is the not one, but two-day fast. Weinland cautioned his followers to be cautious about how they end the fast. Growing up in Armstrong's WCG, I was expected to fast on the Day of Atonement and other special occasions such as when HWA's wife Loma was dying because Herbie wouldn't take her to the doctor to get a simple bowel obstruction taken care of. Maybe if it had been a two-day fast she would still be alive despite this neglect. I never had to go a second day without food and water. A second day without water could be medically dangerous in my inexpert opinion, I hope none die or suffer permanent effects. But his caution on how to break the fast should be considered. I understand that some Nazi prison camp survivors died because their rescuers gave them too much food too quickly. After a period of fasting your stomach shrinks and delirium sets in. Dehydration should be taken care of first, drinking water or at most taking in a broth. Avoid temperatures and activities that make you sweat. Consider at least drinking water on the second day.

It will be interesting to see what message the Insane Liar comes up with next Saturday for his members to ponder on Sunday during their delirium from dehydration and lack of nutrition.

Ron mourned the recent loss of a new member in Australia. Congratulations to that Aussie for breaking free of this predatory false prophet. I hope he didn't give Weinland his life savings before he did.

Weinland's sermon topic continued from last week with the book of Esther. His main point seemed to be that Esther was "given great favor" as will Weinland's followers when the Germans take over the US during the 5th trumpet. Ron kept getting the actors in Esther's story mixed up, with the Silent Witness keeping him straight. God influenced King Xerxes to spare the Jews and it had nothing to do with Esther being a hot babe.

"W", a PKG ex-member who left back in April when he saw Ronnie backing off on prophecies, has broken radio silence to post the latest rumor on the Ironwolf forum and elsewhere on this blog. Back in the Spring "W" broke a rumor for a Plan B to be used just-in-case on the off chance that Ronnie's first timeline failed. Ron was to have a series of sermons explaining his failures, repent, and stop preaching, turning the COG-PKG over to Johnny Harrell and Wayne Matthews. But we all know how it really played out, with Weinland instead bringing out his 50th truth and his second timeline back in June. The latest rumor is that Weinland is using the fast to setup for a change to yet a third timeline later this year.

Could "W" be right this time? Possibly, but I think it will be awhile before being implemented. Weinland set up his second timeline to be more durable, by not sabotaging it with specific prophecies such as the 45-90 day "nukular" thing that he did to the first timeline. I think there will be a third timeline, but probably not for at least 6 months. At a minimum I expect his second timeline to last longer than two months into the 1260-day period as did the first timeline. But whether the third timeline is rolled out this year or the next, most of his followers will believe whatever lame excuse Weinland comes up with and continue to follow him. Perhaps Weinland puts out test ideas to see how they'll be accepted as he continually schemes to move past his prophetic failures, and "W" has only heard a couple of them.

Maybe Weinland's third timeline curse on me for my speedy death will have more efficacy than did those of the first two timelines. It's now 5 weeks since he cursed me and yet here I am still blogging about False Prophet Ronald Weinland.

Weinland Fails Again, We're an Obamanation Now

I just checked a couple of news websites and they say that Barack Obama took the oath of office as our 44th president.

Back in December of 2007, False Prophet Ronald Weinland participated in a radio interview, and immediately claimed to be a prophet of God. Later in the interview when asked who would be the next president, he stated that "if we have the ability to elect someone, they will not take office…our country will be down the tubes by then". In the last few months he has backed off on that claiming that wasn't a prophecy. Hmm. When someone claims to be a prophet of God and then makes a prediction, sure sounds like a prophecy to me.

I didn't vote for Obama. But just like John Wayne I'll say that "he's my president and I hope he does a good job." While I have high hopes, I also have low expectations. And this has nothing to do with anything that Weinland says or what's in the book of Revelation.

It was one month ago today that Weinland cursed me to die speedily from the inside. And Thielogical Bob as well. Yet we're both alive and blogging away.

Weinland's Flexible God Re-explained

During False Prophet Ronald Weinland's Last Great Day sermon less than three months ago, on October 21, he stated with great emphasis: "There will not be a Feast of Tabernacles held next year, not even half of one. Please hear that one." That was at about 1 hour and 35 minutes into the sermon file which is church website tucked away in the "Holy Days" subfolder on the Audio page.

During today's sermon, Weinland read from an update to the FAQ page topic about second tithe on his church website, which includes: "Beginning in February of 2009, all members have been asked to stop sending in any portion of their 2nd tithe in order to keep it for the observance of any of God's annual holy days that some or most may yet have the ability to observe. Since the revelation of the 50th Truth, the fulfillment of all things has moved forward by eight months. God has not revealed the specific timing or exact location for the actual fulfillment of the destruction that will result from the blowing of the Second, Third and Fourth Trumpets. How future events affect the ability to observe holy days is not now known, so we will seek to be as wisely prepared as we can be for any eventuality." I predict that there will be an organized assembly for the Feast of Tabernacles for PKG members this fall, after all.

Weinland repeated his guidelines for participating in his 2-day fast at the end of the month. It seems that he's concerned that someone may suffer medically and bring attention on the church. He added that children and young teens are not to participate at all, even for one day.

He also spent a good deal of the sermon re-explaining his point from last week's sermon about more than 10% of a third being saved, that the flexible God could increase that to 10% of each third, or 10% of a whole. Seems that some did not understand that. Well, I guess I've been listening to Ronnie too long because I understood that and put it down on last week's post. A few PKG members read my website, the rest should also read it.

It's now 4 full weeks since Weinland cursed me and yet I'm still not dead. This week I got an inquiry from Bob Thiel who blogs "Church of God News" asking if the curse was specific to me. I told him that no, it applied to him also.

It's now less than 64 hours until the inauguration of Barack Obama and the next failed Weinland Prophecy.

Weinland Sells Fear

Alexa compiles statistics on website traffic. Here is their estimate of the traffic history for Weinland's "the-end.com" website which he uses to promote his books.
Beginning in October of 2007, Weinland increased the budget for Google Adwords but then cut the budget in June, 2008 when he announced the failure of his first timeline. But shortly after the beginning of his second timeline on Sept 30, he again increased his ad budget.

The way that Google ads work is that when certain search terms or "keywords" are typed into the search engine, a sponsored link is presented and if someone clicks on the link their browser is referred to the advertiser's web site and Google bills the advertiser. I found a web site that tracks key words and here are the top 5 referring keywords to "the-end.com" since Weinland increased his Google ad budget.

Note that the top keyword is 2012. Small wonder, since Weinland is paying a high enough rate-per-click that the sponsored link is at the top of the ordinary hits from the search engine, as shown below. If he had bid a lower amount the sponsored link would have appeared to the right of the normal search results.

What is the significance of "2012"? A visit to the Wikipedia article on 2012 reveals a number of apocalyptic predictions not arising from anything biblical. For example, the Mayan calendar ends in December of 2012. Of the top 5 keywords that direct traffic to "the-end.com", the only one that's biblical is "antichrist". The other 4 of the top 5 keywords represent over 20% of the referred web traffic.

Weinland is falling behind in maintaining his shifting prophecies. In last Saturday's sermon he implied that the Fifth Trumpet which brings about America's downfall could be delayed by two years, yet his sponsored link states that it will happen this year.

Weinland is not trying to warn the world. His ad campaign is designed to target those with an apocalyptic mindset as described on Foresight of Hindsight. Weinland is marketing fear to those most likely to buy it.

It's now 25 days since the Spokesman Witness placed his death curse on me, yet still I haven't died speedily from the inside. It's also now only 6 days until the inauguration of the next president and the next Weinland failed prophecy.

Weinland's Flexible God

False Prophet Ronald Weinland was in Los Angeles yesterday. He made note of a 5.0 earthquake that happened during his visit as being "little" and "small" and only shaking the light fixture. [A point of reference for those evaluating Weinland's Second Thunder.] He spent several minutes discussing the 2-day fast he has called for the 31st. People with health problem and children are not to fast on the second day. It wouldn't do for someone to die during the fast because the Spokesman Witness already has one legal problem (the IRS investigation) and it would be difficult to do his job with a law suit on top of that.

Weinland still hasn't explained why he is changing his instructions for handling of the second tithe. The FAQ Topics on the COG-PKG website are to be edited. They currently state:
Due to the times we live in, there will not be an organized Feast of Tabernacles in 2009. A person should send in 75% of their 2nd tithe with their 1st tithes to the church and hold back 25%.
The same announcement was made in 2007 regarding the 2008 Feast of Tabernacles, but yet his members assembled in October. I have a feeling that history will repeat.

Weinland went back through some of the same material as last week adding a few points. The Sixth Trumpet when the beast power battles the Asiatic hordes at Megiddo may be only a week before Christ's return. With "nukular" weapons the battle can be brief. A period of a year and a month and a day has to be fit somehow into the 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation. He rhetorically asked how long it could be until the Fifth Trumpet blows: A year? Two years? Last week it was 18 months, so the delay is getting progressively longer.

I wonder if he'll edit his "the-end.com" website which now says:
Some of these prophecies concern the demise of the United States over the coming year, which will be followed by man's final world war. This last war will be the result of clashing religions and the governments they sway. Billions will die! This time will far exceed even the very worst times in all human history. A few days ago it said "next six months" instead of "coming year". Jeremy's going to be kept busy updating the website.

Now it seems not that the 2500-3000 scattered members from WCG will not be brought to repentance and into COG-PKG until the Fifth Trumpet blows. Despite this delay in added members, Weinland added yet another elder to his church government, a Tom Burnside of San Jose.

Weinland learned from the failures in his first timeline and has set up the second timeline to be more durable. He did not sabotage it by participating in any radio interviews where he could be badgered into specific prophecies for certain dates for certain events. (Nor would he be brought to task by the radio hosts for breaking his repeated promises to stop preaching and return to the radio shows to acknowledge that he's a false prophet.)

Now he says that some of God's prophecies are flexible, such as it being possible to save a tithe of each third, and not just a tithe of only one of the thirds. The members are to pray for that, and that the thunders be spaced out to allow more people the opportunity to come to repentance. Look for yet more of God's prophecies to be flexible.

It's now only 9 days until the failure of yet another prophecy when the inauguration happens a week from Tuesday. And it's now 3 weeks since Witness Weinland cursed me to speedily die from the inside.

Other Weinland Blogs

Back in January of last year, Weinland Watch started up and was well trafficked. Aggie has decided to move on to other things and has stopped posting to it. However the blog is still up and is a valuable resource for Weinland history during the first few months of 2008 as well as earlier history from comments left there. I wish Aggie well on the next endeavor.

In the last few months a couple of other bloggers have picked up the slack left by other bloggers who've tired of Weinland's antics. Jack Said by Jack and The Prophet Who Failed by Dill Weed have a somewhat humorous take on Weinland. Just for the information of COG-PKG members and wannabees who make assumptions about the background of Weinland's critics, Jack does not have any past association with either Armstrongism or Weinland. Dill Weed does not have a past association either, but is interested in End Times. Despite this area of interest, he recognizes Ron as a False Prophet.

Another blog of interest Escaping Armstrongism. As you might surmise from the blog title, the author xHWA has a former association with Armstrongism. He left after reading sites such as the Painful Truth (which also hosts the Ambassador Report) and the Exit and Support Network. While the focus of his blog is Armstrongism in general, xHWA has occasionally mentioned his interaction with the False Prophet (before COG-PKG).

Escaping Armstrongism has a couple of recent posts which focus on Weinland and the topic of government and how Weinland changed his tune. About 10 years ago, Weinland paid lip service to the idea of "servant leadership", and also wrote some things which were pretty ironic considering that God had supposedly already made him a prophet in 1997. xHWA has some interesting quotes from Weinland's "News Watch" published intermittently from 1998 to 2002. Here's an additional quote to add to the collection.

IN THE CHURCH???
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they
are ravenous wolves" (Matthew 7:15, NKJ). These are God's words! He is talking
about the church! What has our history taught us? How many in the ministry have
already led away Christ's sheep? Is this process over? Are we to close our eyes and
simply believe God has now made all hearts right?
Ronald Weinland, "News Watch", May 1998

Recently, Weinland's position on church government is that good church members are to follow church government (Ron) even if it (he) is wrong. He often gives the example of Herbert W Armstrong's (HWA) change of Pentecost observance from Monday to Sunday. It seems that if someone had observed Pentecost on Sunday prior to HWA changing it from Monday they would have been sinning. And now he's assumed the same mantle as HWA. Weinland was an ordained minister under HWA, but I suspect that if you had asked him about Weinland the response would have been "Ron who???"

It's now 18 days since the Spokesman Witness exercised his renewed powers to pronounce a death curse on me. I still have not died speedily from the inside.

Things to Happen Fast

False Prophet Ronald Weinland spoke today in Cincinnati. But for the next three weekends he will be out of town, to Los Angeles, then Columbia MO, and finally Phoenix.

Starting in February, his followers are no longer required to turn in second tithe but are permitted to keep it for themselves. That does not mean that this money is out of Weinland's grasp -- he could just demand that it be sent in at any time. Maybe even be sent in to a different location, like Germany.

The False Prophet mentioned the possibility that it could be a year and a half before the Second Trumpet blows (but the Thunders would have to get very powerful). He speedily said "We backed off on some time here ....". He asked if their pride would be injured, if they would be embarrassed to those whom they've warned of the Great Tribulation. He said they should be petitioning for a delay.

Let's review this. Last June the False Prophet said he was changing the timeline but his book was still correct. The book says that the first five trumpets will deal their effect on the US by June 21, less than 6 months from now. Then last week Weinland says that the book has to change because the timeline changed. Now he says it could be up to 18 months for just the first two trumpets to sound. Hmmm. Let's see now. The second timeline was delayed by just under 8 months. The original under 6 months from the book plus under 8 months for the delay is under 14 months, but that's for 5 trumpets, compared to his new story of 18 months for only two trumpets. Now I don't have a math degree by Weinland. But I'm sure that he'll explain his new arithmetic throughout the coming sermons.

Today was a fast which had been announced last Saturday. Latitude was given as when exactly to take it. The Insane Liar claimed that he had already finished his fast and apologized for drinking water in front of them. But this was only a practice fast as the real fast is to be on the 31st of this month, AND the first day of February. That's right -- a 2-day fast, but only for able-bodied adults.

The point of the fast seems to become humble so they can ask for even more than a tithe of a third to be saved. Saved in duality, both spiritual and physical. Somewhat timely to the comment from "rj" who said that the fifth thunder prophecy failed so that the prophecy of the "tithe of the third" would not. Now members are to pray that a tithe of all, not just a tithe of one-third, be saved. The physical aspect is that 10% of the US survive the Great Tribulation, not just 3.33%. The spiritual aspect would be that 10% (not just 3.33%) of all those baptized into WCG as of Joseph Tkach's apostasy of Dec 17, 1994 be converted into COG-PKG.

Perhaps if the COG-PKG members fast often enough and long enough each time and petition God humbly enough, then even more than 10% of all can be spared the Great Tribulation. Conceivably even 100% -- think about it. Wouldn't that be a great blessing?

Now 14 days since the Spokesman Witness cursed me to die speedily from the inside. Yet I'm still here mocking away.

A Follower of Ron Reponds

I just received an interesting comment in reply to my last post, and thought it deserved more prominent coverage.

Commenter "rj" who may be a COG-PKG member and in any case is a follower of False Prophet Ronald Weinland wrote:
"I believe Ron and Laura Weinland are the two end-time witnesses and the tribulation has begun on dec 14. I think most people expected it to begin with a big bang, I most deffenently did not. If something huge happened on dec 14 and if all of those ministers [Meredith, Ames Rittenbach, Pack, and Flurry] would have all died by now, a lot more then 10% of a third of the scattered church would of reconized the Weinlands were the witnesses and the remnant would be a lot larger, but this way most have written him off as a false prophet. Also most believe that Jesus Christ will return on Trumpets, so I think something big will happen in the spring of 2009 or in 2010 so it will appear the tribulation will end on trumpets This is a blessing because it shortens the severeness of the 3&1/2 year tribulation. Also the fact that this site exists as well as others is an encouragement to me, because in order for scripture to be fulfilled there has to be mockers and scoffers, and who better for satan to use then highly intellegent, disgrunted ex-members"

This is a cut-and-paste of the entire comment, so I have not introduced any grammatical errors or taken out any paragraph breaks. I find it difficult to pick out sentences without paragraph breaks, so I'm repeating the comment again, point by point, as I respond.

"I believe Ron and Laura Weinland are the two end-time witnesses and the tribulation has begun on dec 14."

It would be very interesting to understand why you believe this. Do you have anything more than the "proof" you offered later in your comment? Why do you believe that Ron and Laura are the two witnesses? Where's the proof? Where is the evidence of the First Trumpet since Dec. 14?

"I think most people expected it to begin with a big bang, I most deffenently did not."

I disagree with that statement. I definitely didn't expect a big bang, either. Nor did "most people". Most people expected nothing to happen. Which is what happened. Or didn't happen, depending on how you want to say it.

"If something huge happened on dec 14 and if all of those ministers [ Meredith, Ames Rittenbach, Pack, and Flurry]would have all died by now, a lot more then 10% of a third of the scattered church would of reconized the Weinlands were the witnesses and the remnant would be a lot larger, but this way most have written him off as a false prophet."

(Actually it's "Rittenbaugh", not "Rittenbach", and there should be a comma after "Ames" since that's the last name of one of the ministers and not Rittenbaugh's first name.)

That's very interesting. You've admitted that the prophecy about the ministers failed, and the reason it failed was so that another wouldn't fail.

As a matter of explanation, the "remnant" to which "rj" refers is those who would have joined Weinland's one and only true church who were formerly members of WCG when the "Son of Perdition" Joseph Tkach committed the "abomination of desolation" against the rebuilt temple (WCG) when the First Seal opened. AKA Tkach's infamous Dec 17, 1994 sermon in Atlanta. With the WCG membership in the ballpark of 100,000 at that time, a tithe of 1/3 of those would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 3300 people. Weinland has mentioned the 300 often in his references to Gideon's army and the breaking of the pitchers. Communications from ex-members of COG-PKG have put the membership at the 2007 Feast of Tabernacles at the 300-450 range of which 300 could be ex-WCG. He's also mentioned in sermons "another 2700 out there". Apparently, the numbers aren't exact just like the numbers of the COG-PKG members actually sealed on September 30.

[Note: in his sermon the following day, Weinland speculated that the total could be a tithe of all, not just one-third. Perhaps not an important prophecy, except to "rj".]

In his book the False Prophet described the prophesied deaths of the five specific ministers "rj" listed as proof that he was a prophet, said they would happen "early" after the publication of his book in 2006, said they were part of the thunders that would sound loudly before the 7th seal opened and the Great Tribulation began.

"Also most believe that Jesus Christ will return on Trumpets, so I think something big will happen in the spring of 2009 or in 2010 so it will appear the tribulation will end on trumpets"

I don't know whether or not most believe that Christ returns on a Feast of Trumpets, but I find it interesting that you think God will deliberately deceive people.

Do you believe that "2008 God's Final Witness" is a divinely inspired revelation from God? If so, how can you believe that it will be as late as 2010 before something big happens? According to the book, the Fifth Trumpet has to sound before June 21 because the Fifth Trumpet is when the US is no longer an independent nation and the USA is to no longer be an independent nation by that date. In June, Weinland's story was that the book was true but he presumptuously put his own interpretation on it to come up with his first timeline. So now the story is changing again and the book is false? Either the book is true or it isn't -- so which is it?

"Also the fact that this site exists as well as others is an encouragement to me, because in order for scripture to be fulfilled there has to be mockers and scoffers, and who better for satan to use then highly intellegent, disgrunted ex-members"

Considering the source, I'm not totally sure whether to be flattered or not by being called "highly intelligent" so I'll just say "Thank you .... maybe." As far as being a "disgruntled ex-member" a read of my profile which can be accessed on the side of this blog would have shown that to be incorrect in my case. I am not nor have I ever been a member of COG-PKG, WCG, or any of the "splinters". A read of other blogs actively mocking this False Prophet show this to be the case for others. Others may be ex-WCG, but so far at least there are no ex-COG-PKG members blogging against Weinland.

Nor am I fulfilling scripture. I am not mocking a true prophet of God. Speaking of my being a mocker, I have a question: "How long is 'speedily'?" Weinland said I was going to die speedily from the inside, so what's the longest I can expect to live? It's been 13 days so far -- doesn't seem particularly speedy.

So "rj", what will it take and how long will it take for you to recognize that Weinland has deceived you? Will you still be following Ron during the 2012 Feast of Tabernacles when Christ still hasn't returned? Indications are that you only have ears to hear what Weinland said in his latest sermon, and you'll never even attempt to draw a line in the ever-shifting sands of his prophecies.

2009 God's False Witness

With 2008 and the beginnings of not one but two Great Tribulations behind us, here are my predictions for 2009.

On January 20, Barack Obama will be inaugurated as the 44th president of the United States of America, ignoring Weinland's prophecy that no one would take office.

The pope will wave his arms over the crowd on Easter, but otherwise will not do anything to organize 10 European nations to take over the US.

Somewhere in the world sometime during the year will be a major weather event, an earthquake, or even a swarm of earthquakes and Ronnie will point to that as more thundering. A couple of celebrities will die and that will be evidence of the Fifth Thunder. And should one of the Five Notable Scattered Ministers die, well then look out. The global economic situation will get worse before it gets better. Ronnie will keep hammering away at the Fourth Thunder until it does.

And it will get a whole lot worse for Weinland's followers who listened to him and broke their pitchers to finance a Google Ad campaign on keywords such as "Nostradamus". Some may share something else with Ronnie when they're persecuted by the IRS as the result of believing Weinland's prediction that the IRS would not be able to collect 2008 taxes and then performing taxable events without setting aside funds to pay their taxes on April 15.

The Insane Liar will manage to hang onto most of his followers who will give him at least a year for the Second Trumpet to Sound as they forget that Weinland's book was supposed to be divinely inspired. The only thing that would prevent that would be Weinland taken out of the picture, such as being arrested by the IRS CID and convicted for violations of the tax code. If that happens, I doubt that Laura, Johnny, and Wayne could hold it together.

As far as the 7 trumpets, no need to worry about them anymore as I heard them go off this evening -- at least 7 of them anyway. Here's a picture of them and a message.
And it's now 11 days since the Spokesman Witness placed a death curse on me (for the second time). Nothing yet.